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Regional Oral History Office
The Bancroft Library
University of California
Berkeley, California
Edward Cans
BERLIN BANKER TO CALIFORNIA NUMISMATIST, 1887-1987
With an Introduction by
Wolfgang J. Heimpel
An Interview Conducted by
Ora Huth
1983-1987
Copyright (c) 1987 by The Regents of the University of California
All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal
agreement between the University of California and
Edward Cans dated March 24, 1986. The manuscript is
thereby made available for research purposes. All
literary rights in the manuscript, including the right
to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the
University of California, Berkeley. No part of the
manuscript may be quoted for publication without the
written permission of the Director of The Bancroft
Library of the University of California, Berkeley.
Request for permission to quote for publication
should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office,
486 Library, University of California, Berkeley 94720,
and should include identification of the specific
passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages,
and identification of the user. The legal agreement
with Edward Cans requires that he be notified of the
request and allowed thirty days in which to respond.
It is recommended that this oral history be cited
as follows:
Edward Cans, "Berlin Banker to California
Numismatist, 1887-1987," an oral history
conducted 1983-1987 by Ora Huth, Regional
Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library,
University of California, Berkeley, 1987.
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EDWARD CANS
March 1982
TABLE OF CONTENTS — Edward Cans
PREFACE by Natasha Borovsky
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
INTRODUCTION by Wolfgang J. Helmpel
INTERVIEW HISTORY
v
BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH
X X
I EARLY CULTURAL AND BUSINESS LIFE IN HAMBURG : 1887 TO 1 909 1
The Early Years 1
Schooling and Future Prospects 2
Hamburg and Its Business Classifications 3
Early Enthusiasm for Chemistry 4
Hamburg Cultural and Business Life Compared 4
Reflections on Musical Interests* 1902 5
An Amusing Event for Dr. Niemeyer 6
Singing with the Euthymia Club 6
Cultivating a Love for Bach 7
More on Music at Dr. NIemeyer's 7
Activities at Hamburg Sports Clubs 8
Apprenticeship in a Hamburg Export House* 1902 8
More on Musical Activities and Friends 9
Advancement In the Export Business at Age 17, 1904 to 1909 10
Impact of Hamburg Expectations on Private Life 11
II LIFE IN BERLIN AS REMISSER, HUSBAND, ARMY RESERVIST, AND BANKER:
1909 TO 1925 13
Move to Berl In In 1909 13
Becoming a Foreign Bank Representative 13
Transition to a Berlin Lifestyle 14
Teletype Connection Expands Business 15
Edward Gans, Registered Banker In 1910 15
Trading In Foreign Securities Only, 1910 to 1914 16
Meeting First Wife, Paula, In 1912: the Real Story to Come
Later 17
Military Reserve Service During World War I: 1914 to 1918 17
Aiding Germany's War Loan Efforts 18
Service with the Blumensteln Firm In Berlin, 1918 19
Becoming a Real Banker: The Kolonlal bank, 1918 to 1925 20
Austrian Connection and the Deutsche Landerbank 21
Acquiring Fine Banking Property 22
New Location and Leadership, 1921 22
Takeover by I. G. Far ben I ndustr le, 1925 23
Hitler on the Horizon: Exclusion from I. G. Farben Industrie 23
III TWO MARRIAGES: LIFESTYLE CHANGES AND ANTIQUITY ART COLLECTING,
1912 TO 1926 25
Meeting Paula Mul ler In 1912 25
Love for Art In the Hamburg Years 26
Changing Lifestyle and Trip to Paris 26
Wartime Changes, 1914
The Antiquity Business In Berlin
Limited Military Service and Marriage, 1914-1918 29
At War's End: Entering Banking and Modern Art Collecting 30
The Art Object Collection 31
Reflections on Col lecting Qua I Ity Art Objects 32
The Lederer Connection Leads to Significant Collecting
Much Later, In 1940, In America: Confirmation of Quality 33
The Boser Buben Ball: Paula's Sudden Fatal Illness 34
Paula's Special Philosophy Remembered 34
Music, An Unusual Friendship with Asya In 1926, and Marriage
in 1930 36
IV VALUED BERLIN FRIENDSHIPS, AND A PREVIEW OF THE STORY TO COME:
1926 TO 1928 37
Meaningful Friendships 37
Die dref Schwaben 38
Dr. Ferdinand Malnzer: A Renaissance Man 39
Chamber Music at the House of Malnzer 39
Malnzer's Clinic, the Nazis, and His Later Years 40
More on Dr. Lederer and Coin Collecting 41
Friendship with Clergyman Frederich Erxleben 42
Museum Director, Professor Robert Zahn 42
Another Close Friend, Kurt Kruger 44
Violin Maker, Otto Mockel 45
Importance of Friendships 45
Looking Ahead to Future Interviews 46
A Look at the Story of Numismatic Fine Arts 47
Some Thoughts on This History and Life's Miracles 49
V ENTRY INTO NUMISMATICS, PARTIAL LIQUIDATION OF ART TREASURES, AND
STORIES ABOUT RAREST OBJECTS: 1926 TO 1928 5 1
Moving From Classical Art Collecting to Numismatics: Dr.
Lederer1 s Influence 51
Auction of Antiquities Objects Collection In 1928 52
Soaring Values of Rare Gold Objects: Discovering the Useful Iness
of One Piece 52
Other Unusual Pieces In the Gold Jewelry Collection 53
VI LIFE WITH ASYA, THE RE ICHSBANK CONNECTION, THE NAZIS, AND
EMIGRATION TO THE UNITED STATES: 1929 TO 1938 55
Important Affiliation with the Deutsche Reichsbank in the
Naz I Era 55
More on the Trip to Israel: Decision to Emigrate to New
York, 1935 and 1936 56
Deciding Not to Found a Jewish Music Publishing House 56
Final Weeks In Germany: Late 1936 and 1937 57
Concern and Preparation for Border Crossing 59
Journey to Paris to Visit a Special Brother 59
Arrival In New York City In January 1938 60
VII NEW LIFE AND CAREER AS A NUMISMATIST IN NEW YORK CITY: 1938
TO 1942 61
Getting Started with the Help of Friends 61
Miraculous Meeting with Coin Dealer, Mr. Metal 62
Beginning Business as a Numismatist In 1939— At Age Fifty-Two 63
A New Partnership: Numismatic Fine Arts 63
Valuable Connection with the German Numismatist, David
Nussbaum 64
Closing the Partnership with Mr. Metal In 1940 66
Some Further Thoughts About the Story to Come 67
Professional Affiliations Begin In New York City, 1938 68
1940 Move to Madison Avenue and 95th Street: A Growing
Business 69
An Interesting Friend and Customei — Maxime Velay 70
A Third Organization: The American Numismatic Association
(ANA) 71
The Wei I Publ Ished Classica ! Jewel ry Exhibition, and Personal
Business Style 72
More on Family Background 73
Establishing Close Connections with Two Renowned Dealers 73
Dealer Jacob HIrsch 73
Dealer Joseph Brummer 74
Friendship with Art Restorer, Joseph Ternbach 75
Move to 101 West 55th Street, Tenth Floor, In 1942 75
The 1942 Letter on Numismatics to Universities, Colleges,
and Museums 76
Good Response to the Circular Letter 77
Establishing a Connection with Istanbul Dealers for Valuable
Materials in 1942 78
VIM EXPANDING IN NUMISMATICS THROUGH CONTACTS WITH SCHOLARS:
1942 TO 1951 79
Connection with Dr. Karl Lehmann-Hartleben 79
Another Friend, Scholar David M. Robinson 80
A Story About Authenticity of Coins and Professor Agnes
Baldwin Brett 81
Professor Alfred Salmony — Friend and Art History Scholar 82
Professor Ernst Herzfel d— Excavator and Coin Collector 82
Professor Guldo KIsch, Margareta Bleber, GIsela RIchter, Homer
and Dorothy Thompson: Scholars and Collectors 83
The Largest Privately Owned Numismatic Library: Transfer to
UCLA Through Professor Milton Anastos 84
The Dumbarton Oaks Connection: Scholars and Numismatists 84
Numismatic Fine Arts and New Friendships with Collectors of
Ancient Coins 86
Arthur S. Dewlng's Remarkable Collection and his Frugality 86
Dr. J. Hewitt Judd» Omaha: Greek and American Coins* and
a Burglary Loss 87
Burton Y. Berry, Istanbul: Collector of Phillip and
Alexander Coins
Friendship with Hans von Aulock, Istanbul 90
Leopold Cansio, Washington, D.C. : A Special Friend 91
X CHOOSING CALIFORNIA AS THE PLACE TO LIVE: A NEW BERKELEY HOME
AND NEW CONNECTIONS, 1951 TO 1957 93
Deciding Where to Settle: Tour Around the United States In
1951 93
Decision to Move to Berkeley, California, and to Build
a Home, 1952
Continued Contact with New York Customers, in Berkeley 94
More on Professor Arthur S. Dewing 94
Alfred Schoenllcht and the Jade Buffalo 95
Kenneth Richmond and the Connection with Colonel Dykman,
Princess Xenia, and Dr. Herman Felth 96
Cataloging and Sale of the Grand Duke George Michal lov Ich's
Great Russian Coin and Medals Col lection— For Princess
Xenia 97
Finding an Appropriate Buyer for the Medals, In 1957 98
Gifts of Appreciation to the American Numismatic Society (ANS)
and President Franklin D. Roosevelt
Friendship with Writer Louis Zara 100
Remembering a Thirtieth Birthday Gift from Paula: The Lapis
Lazul I "Gans" Ring
Unchanging Life Philosophy and Business Style 101
Affiliation with the International Association of Professional
Numismatists ( IAPN) 102
X TRAVEL, NEW AND RENEWED FRIENDSHIPS, AND THE MOVE FROM COIN TO
SEAL COLLECTING: 1958 TO 1971 103
The European Adventures, Israel, and Attendance at an
International Association of Professional Numismatists'
Meeting, 1958 and 1961 103
Developing a Close Friendship with Dr. Robert E. Gobi,
Israel Visit, and Meeting Hans von Aulock 103
Canadian Travel, 1960 Sale of the George Bauer Collection,
and Personal Illness 104
The Rome Trip In 1961: Combined Meetings of the IAPN and the
International Numismatists Congress 105
The Vatican Coins 105
Visit with the Ernst Nash Family 106
From Hobby to Investment Only: Coin Collecting In the 1960s
and 1970s 106
Disappointing Experience with a Major European Dealer 107
Questionable Activity by an Unnamed American Dealer 108
Unauthorized Sale of the Edward Cans Firm Name:
"Numismatic Fine Arts" 109
Fair Dealing by the New Numismatic Fine Arts 110
More on the Gift of the Numismatic Library to UCLA 110
Acquiring Significant Seals from Hans von Aulock In Istanbul*
and Professor Edith Porada's Six-Year Evaluation of the
Collection, 1961 To 1968 111
Acquiring Professor Grosse's Oriental Seals and Jade Objects
from TIkotIn In the Early 1970s, and Na Chl-Llang's
Description 113
Miracle Acquisitions of Seals from England, Thailand, Mexico
and Ecuador Lead to the Concept of Comparative Study of
Seals — SIgll lography 114
Beginning a Friendly Relationship with the University of
California at Berkeley's Department of Near Eastern Studies 116
XI RARE COINS SOLD, SEALS ACQUIRED, UNUSUAL FRIENDS AND EVENTS:
1951 TO 1978 117
Salman Schocken's Acquisition of a Rare Greek Coin, His
Berkeley Visit, and the Introduction to Norman Davis 117
Keeping Business Going After Age Seventy: Life Challenges
and Problems Liquidating Coins 119
Working with Professor Wolfgang Helmpel on the Comparative
Study of Seals 119
More on Fel Ix TIkotln's Visit, and Acquiring and Cataloging
Professor Grosse's Seal Collection, about 1970 121
More on the Connection with Na Chl-Liang, Taiwan, for
Cataloging the Grosse Collection 121
Friendship with Fred Stress, and Acquisition of Valuable
Egyptian, Mexican, Guatemalan, Ecuadorian, Cretan, Persian,
and Indian Seals 122
Thoughts About this History, Personal Philosophy, and the
Miraculous Additions to the Seal Collection 123
The Valuable Mohenjo-Daro Seal 124
Rare Seals from Thailand 124
Two Unusual Seals from China 124
Friendship with Professor Helmpel: Lodging the Seal
Collection at U.C. Berkeley 125
More on the "New" Numismatic Fine Arts 126
XII LIVING WITH ASYA AND MUSIC: 1939 TO 1979 127
Musician Friends and Music In New York City and Berkeley 127
Asya: Her Music, Falling Health, and Passing In 1979 129
XIII MIRACULOUS EVENTS, NEW TASKS, PAST REMEMBRANCES, LOVING FRIENDS
AND FAMILY: 1979 TO 1984 131
Expanding the Seal Collection: A Special Location on the
U.C. Campus
Recalling 1979: Asya's Passing, a Loving Mother, and
Events From Long Ago 132
Natasha Borovsky: Author* Poet» Translator/ Friend* and
Helping to Proofread her Manuscript — at Age 92, 1979 134
Meeting Artist, Lucy Kaplan, Through Natasha: The Adoption,
and Lucy's Daughters 135
Lucy — An Adopted Daughter
More About Natasha, Lucy, and Lucy's Daughters 137
A Need to Be With People 139
More on Lucy Kaplan's Work and Daughters: Meagan and
Justine 139
More on the Berlin Years and the Summer House for Bank
Employees 140
Lydla Gans — A Remarkable Daughter 141
XIV THE STORY ABOUT THE SASANIAN SEALS, THE NEW NUMISMATIC FINE
ARTS, PAST COLLECTING, AND THE RENAISSANCE MEDALS 142
Acquiring the Sasanlan and Portrait Seals, 1984 142
Louis Pappas and the Portrait Seals 143
Obtaining Clay Impressions of the Seal Collection 144
More on the New Numismatic Fine Arts: Bruce McNal I's
Successful Dealership 145
SIgmund Morgenroth and Son: Source of Useful Coins 146
The Decision to Move from Coin to Seal Col lectlng at
Age Seventy-Five 147
More on the Sasanlan Seals, U.C. Berkeley, and the Propriety
of Importing and Exporting National Treasures 148
The Study of Renaissance Medals 149
The Impressive Morgenroth Collection 149
The Gans Study of Goethe's Renaissance Italian Medals 150
XV MORE ON SEALS COLLECTING AND VIEWPOINTS ON THE PAST AND FUTURE,
1983 TO 1985 153
Thoughts on Deteriorating Eyesight Following Surgery, and
the Last Trip with Asya In 1961 153
More Recollections on Moving to Seals Collecting and Problems
Liquidating the Coin Dealership 154
More on Sources for Seals 155
Albert Baldwin 155
Fred Stress 155
More Thoughts on the Changing Coin Market 156
Another Miracle— The Seals Collection 157
More on the Comparative Collection with Wolfgang Hetmpel 158
Seals from Crete and Ecuador 158
More on Fel Ix TIkotIn and the Grosse Col lection 159
Problems with Documentation of the Chinese and Japanese
Seal Col lections 160
More on Na Chl-LIang's Catalog 161
More on the Mohenjo-Daro and Thailand Seals, and Exporting
Treasures 162
More on Acquisition of the Sasanlan Seals 163
Some Thoughts on the IAPN and Collecting Seals 164
More on the Move to Seal Collecting 166
Fred Stress 167
More on Acquiring Oriental, Mexican, Indian, and
Sasanlan Seals 167
XVI MORE RECOLLECTIONS ON A LONG LIFE AS COIN DEALER, COLLECTOR,
FRIEND, AND FATHER 170
More on Collecting as an Investment 170
Reflections on Lifestyle and the Need to Listen to the Heart 172
Recalling a Close Connection with Michael Sloan, In Postwar
New York 173
The Important "Lucky Seven" Women 174
The Life-Fulfilling Events to Come: Request to Postpone
This Oral History's Completion 176
More on Natasha's Novels 176
Remarkable Care From Polly Horn 177
Daughter Lydla's Invitation to China 178
More on Adopted Daugher, Lucy 179
Polly Horn's Special Care 179
Reflecting on Life at Age Ninety-Eight 180
Lydla's Thoughts on her Father's Caring Philosophy 180
Closing the Story on Seal Collecting 181
More on the Gift of Philosopher Felix Mautner's Works 184
Natasha's Second Novel: A Remarkable Romantic Story 185
XVII ADDENDUM TO MY ORAL HISTORY 187
December 5, 1984 187
Dealing with Dealers and Museums 187
June 18, 1985 189
More on Dealing with Dealers and Museums 1S
October 20, 1985 193
A New Scrapbook 193
October 21, 1985 195
October 26, 1985 195
Two Stories 199
Fowler McCormack 199
Dr. J. H. Judd 200
XVIII POSTSCRIPTS WRITTEN IN MY HUNDREDTH YEAR 202
June 29, 1987
Another Postscript 202
TAPE GUIDE 203
APPENDIX 206
INDEX 246
PREFACE
One morning In the spring of 1978, at my bus stop In downtown Berkeley,
an elegant elder couple, unmistakably European, caught my attention. As we
rode the bus up the hill together, I discovered that Edward and Asya Cans,
my new acquaintances, had known my father, Alexander Borovsky, In the early
thirties In Berlin. They had heard of me and my long Illness through mutual
friends.
This chance meeting was the beginning of a friendship "which only grew
the more close and precious after Asya left us," (In Edward's words), In
August 1979. Not only did Edward become Involved In my personal concerns —
my children, my new husband, my house, my health — but he participated
actively In my professional life as poet and novelist. He attended poetry
readings, read my proofs, was the first to hear a fresh poem, the first to
buy a copy, or Indeed several, of my novel. I drew freely on his German
recollections for my current work In progress. He was both witness and
Instrument In the dramatic Improvement that my personal as wel I as my
professional life underwent over these past seven years.
To know this extraordinary man has also been a privilege In a larger
sense. Not only Is he the storehouse of a century of history, a repository
of culture and knowledge, but someone with the capacity both to expand
outwardly and grow Inwardly. I watched him grapple with and finally embrace
radical new concepts In poetry and art as In human relations. I saw him
acknowledge the spiritual dimension.
Although Edward Cans no longer rides the bus due to his falling
eyesight, he still walks past my house on the hill every morning. A little
more bent, not quite as dapper perhaps, he Is still essentially as I
described him In the following poem. Only the title Is in error. 'The
Crowning Hour" was not on his ninety-third birthday. The crowning hour Is
yet to come.
Natasha Borovsky
July, 1987
Berkeley, California
ii
THE CROWNING HOUR*
A VILANELLE
Three years and ninety have not bowed his frame,
the dapper gentleman in silk cravat.
His nimble mind and legs put youth to shame.
He proudly bears an old Hebraic name.
His age with recollections rich is packed.
Three years and ninety have not bowed his frame.
In all his dealings, scrupulous of blame.
His native Hamburg ethic kept intact.
His nimble mind and legs put youth to shame.
From dilettante collector to just fame,
The world of numismatics doffs its hat.
Three years and ninety have not bowed his frame.
His heart, by grief unliardened, grows humane.
No pleasure charms him like a kindly act.
His nimble mind and legs put youth to shame.
He still brings verve and vigor to life's game.
He overrides five generations' gap.
Three years and ninety have not bowed his frame.
His nimble mind and legs put youth to shame.
To Eduard Cans upon his birthday,
August 27, 1980
* Borovsky, Natasha, Drops of Glass: Poems in Major
and Minor — New Forms and Old. Tabula Rasa Press,
Pasadena, California, 1981.
iii
ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
On behalf of future scholars* we thank those persons who have made
this oral history possible:
The Chancellor's Office for funding support
The Department of Near Eastern Studies for their sponsorship
of this oral history
Professor Wolfgang Hetmpel, Department of Near Eastern Studies*
for providing technical help on numismatics and slgl I lography.
and for writing the Introduction
The Advisory Committee for help In formulating questions:
Professor Wolfgang Helmpel. Near Eastern Studies
Professor David Stronach. Near Eastern Studies
Professor Ronald Stroud, Classics
Professor Emeritus W. Kendrlck Prltchett. Greek
Professor Emeritus Darrel I A. Amyx. History of Art
Ora Huth, Interviewer-editor, for her persistence and caring
attention and many hours of volunteer work during the period
when there was no funding to continue the project
And» In particular:
Edward Gans for his extensive time and attention In recording and
reviewing the transcripts, and his additional financial support to
allow for more detail and 1 1 I ustratlve material s;
His daughter Lydla Gans, for her assistance In the editing and for
her financial support;
His adopted daughter Lucy Kaplan for her ongoing encouragement and
assistance In the oral history.
WII la Baum
Division Head
August. 1987
Regional Oral History Office
iv
INTRODUCTION
It Is not common that a person receives the first copy of the story of
his life on his 100th birthday. The bystanders will Inevitably speculate
about Edward Gans1 secret of longevity and many of them will have an Idea
about It. In one of the Interviews, Lydla says about her father: 'Ne's so
strong In confidence, and In his giving support and positive reactions to
people's work," and Ora Huth, the Interviewer, comments: "That's probably
been his approach through his lifetime, and one reason why he's lived to age
ninety-eight." I can only contribute my belief that his diet does not seem
to be a reason because It consists to a good part of chocolate cake.
It Is, of course, not the number of years that counts In a life but
their contents. Also, it Is not the number of pages and cost of their
printing that counts In a biography but the frankness of Its words. It will
not take the reader much reading to discover that Edward Gans' life Is rich
and varied, and that he tells about It frankly. As a consequence, his
history has acquired that property that he holds in highest esteem: a
continuing value (elnen blelbenden Wert).
From my particular point of view, I want to Indicate just one element
that contributes to this value. Historians, when using the kind of objects
that can be found In Edward Gans' seal collection as source material, throw
up their hands In frustration If the object comes from the antiquities
market. For them it means that the f Indspot Is not known — and the findspot
Is for them almost as valuable as the object. They will want to trace it
through that market In the hope to discover the findspot after all. Then
they will be frustrated a second time because there Is usually no record of
the circumstances of acquisition. In the case of Edward Gans' collection
there Is this oral history, containing, as it does, a wealth of Information
about just that.
I am sure that the reader, whatever his, or her, particular inclination
might be, will find other elements that are meaningful to him and thus
reveal themselves as part of a continuing value.
Wolfgang J. Helmpel
July, 1987
Department of Near Eastern Studies
609 Evans Hal I
University of California
Berkeley, Cal ifornla
INTERVIEW HISTORY
Edward Gans was asked to do an oral history because of his
distinguished career as a renowned numismatist who collected and studied
ancient coins and seals; as a preeminent collector of Classical,
Hellenistic* and Roman jewelry; and as an esteemed donor of rare seals and
books to the University of Cal Ifornla at Berkeley (UCB) and Los Angeles
(UCLA). Remarkably* many of these achievements took place In the second
half of his long, eventful life, after age fifty, and many of his seals were
acquired after age ninety. His gift of his collection of over one thousand
ancient seals from many cultures, worldwide, and his valuable library on
seals to the Department of Near Eastern Studies, UCB, Is the basis for
scholarly research already underway In comparative slgl I lography. Because
of his reassuring and caring ways, his warmth and understanding, and the
support he gives to family, friends, and acquaintances, he Is treasured and
much loved as a father, grandfather, friend, and associate.
Born In Hamburg, Germany, on August 27, 1887, Edward Gans was the
youngest of five children, four sons and a daughter, of a cigar merchant and
an actress-housewife. His mother was widowed when an Influenza epidemic was
fatal to his father and a brother. Supported by a banker uncle who lived In
Berlin, he had private schooling and pursued his Interests In chemistry,
music, and tennis. He did well In school, sang, played the violin and
viola, and acquired the ethics and attributes of a '^Hamburg boy" such as
reliability, truthful I ness, and promptness that remained as lifetime traits.
He was apprenticed to an export house at age seventeen. With the help of
his brother, Robert, at age nineteen he moved to Berlin and began a new
lifestyle as a representative for a firm dealing In stocks and bonds. It
was fortunate that during World War I a clerk gave him the title "banker"
because It gave him office rather than frontline military duty.
In 1912 Edward Gans met Paula Muller, also from Hamburg, as they
traveled over a holiday to visit their mothers. They married and "the best
two years of his life" followed. Through her work for a Berlin firm dealing
In fine art objects, they began collecting artworks. Moreover, because of
his wartime connections, Edward became a director for the Deutsche
Landerbank. Paula managed the flourishing art shop, and through It they
enjoyed friendship with Berlin's leading musicians, writers, and artists.
She died tragically In 1926, and for Edward the art collecting ended. Soon,
through friends, ancient Greek and Roman coin collecting began, and he got
back Into music. He hired Asya Marshack, a Russian music student, to
accompany him as he practiced his violin, and within two years they married.
During the Berl In years, Edward Gans made many close friends, many of
whom were prominent In the cultural life of the city and Germany. He tells
us that as he pursued his varied Interests, Including coin collecting, he
never made a friend "for business reasons." As a Jew when the Nazis came,
he could not be a bank official, but he continued working In stocks and
bonds. Finally, aided by a banker friend, he left Germany with Asya, six-
vi
year-old daughter Lydla, and his art and coin collections — arriving In New
York City In late 1937. Finding suitable work was difficult, until he met
the man who became his partner In an ancient coin dealership — as the
Numismatic Fine Arts (NUFINA) firm was born. When his partner left, he
continued alone, and the firm prospered In New York, then In California when
the family moved to Berkeley In 1953 while Lydla was a student at UCB.
A letter sent by Edward Gans In March 1942 to museums, colleges, and
universities led to close connections with scholars, Increasing business for
NUFINA, and leadership In several professional numismatic organizations.
From 1958 to 1971 there was less business In the coin trade and Increasing
Interest In seals.
In 1979 when he was ninety-two, Edward's wife Asya passed away. He
tells of the deep depression that followed and how, slowly, the void that
was left with her death began to be filled by his family and new friends who
came Into his life, Including Lucy Kaplan, who became his adopted daughter.
In his oral history Edward Gans tells about the gift of his library on
ancient coins to UCLA. He describes how the seals collection grew as a
close connection was made with the Department of Near Eastern Studies (UCB),
and Important acquisitions were made with the assistance of Professor
Wolfgang Helmpel. He tells how he and Professor Helmpel jointly proposed
the comparative slgl I lography study, research and compilation of a catalog,
and the gift of the seals and accompanying library to the university.
The Department of Near Eastern Studies suggested the Edward Gans oral
history proceed with the assistance of an Illustrious Berkeley campus
advisory committee composed of Professor Heimpel, and professors David
Stronach, Near Eastern Studies; Ronald Stroud, classics; W. Kendrlck
Prltchett, (Emeritus) Greek; and Darrel I A. Amyx, history of art. With the
advice of the committee and research on Edward Gans' background, career, and
Interests, an outline was prepared, approved, and used In Interviews that
were recorded on forty-one tapes on the fol lowing dates:
Intervl ew
Interview
Interview
Interview
Interview 5
Interview 6
Interview 7
Interview
Interview
Interview
8
9
10
September 22, 1983
September 28, 1983
October 3, 1983
October 10, 1983
October 31, 1983
November 7, 1983
November
November
November
December
14, 1983
23, 1983
30, 1983
7, 1983
Interview 11 December 14, 1983
Interview 12 January 4, 1984
Interview 13 January 25, 1984
Interview 14 February 9, 1984
Interview 15 May 6, 1984
Interview 16 July 18, 1984
Interview 17 December 20, 1984
Interview 18 January 8, 1985
Interview 19 August 28, 1985
Interview 10 was videotaped by Chuck Lelghton, program producer for
KTVU Television, Channel 2, Oakland, to be used for a program series on the
values to society of the elderly. Mr. Gans received a copy of that
videotape which we hope he will present to The Bancroft Library.
Vll
The Interviews took place In the book-lined study of the beautiful home
of Edward Gans designed by his Berkeley friend, the late renowned Hamburg
architect, Oscar Gerson. The rooms were tastefully decorated with many fine
furnishings. Including Asya's grand piano, and artifacts acquired In the
Berlin years. Mr. Gans was comfortably seated In a chair facing the
Interviewer next to a picture window overlooking his well-kept garden. He
often got up to walk around the room as he talked or retrieved resources
pertaining to the Interviews. He spoke slowly, pausing often, with his
thoughts following logically, and with clear and vivid recall, even of
events of over eighty or more years before. Some tapes were self-recorded
by Mr. Gans without the Interviewer present, as he thought of more he wanted
to say, and he expressed the hope he would not be adding too much to the
costs of the oral history.
As the project began, Edward Gans spoke of his deep depression
following the death of his wife, Asya, and thoughts that there was nothing
of Interest left for him because of his poor hearing and falling eyesight.
As the Interviews went along, he would telephone the Interviewer to say he
had "so much to tell," and that he had difficulty waiting until the next
scheduled session. Often he was asked If he was tired and If he wanted to
rest or quit after two or three hours of taping, and he would say he was so
Involved and he had so much to say that he "could go on for hours." When
the Interviewing seemed to be complete but several months had passed* he
would call to say he had more to add and ask the Interviewer to come again
with the tape recorder.
The transcribing and editing processes were more than ordinarily time
consuming and difficult. The tapes were hard to transcribe because of Mr.
Gans1 unusually long pauses on the tapes while he collected his thoughts,
his heavy German accent, and the fact that he liked to walk around the room
while he spoke — so some words were unclear or not on the tape. Professor
Helmpel's help was sought to f 1 1 I In specialized words or words of German
derivation on the rough transcript. The editing also was more elaborate
than usual In that Mr. Gans requested that his German syntax be revised to
proper English. The editor tried to retain the very sparkling* lively and
descriptive essence of Mr. Gans1 conversation and still adhere to his
wishes.
Because of his poor eyesight, for his own review Mr. Gans had to depend
on his daughter Lydla, a professor of mathematics at Cal Poly In Pomona*
when she came up to visit her father. Together they carefully reviewed the
edited transcript for repetitive material, errors, and to provide valuable
additions. Considerable time was spent by the editor, working with Mr. Gans
and his daughters, In selecting and preparing photographs, Including
translations from German to English, and other supplementary Illustrative
material. Materials not Included In the volume are deposited In The
Bancroft Library for research reference.
The oral history, here presented In the order In which It took place,
Is not only a record of a remarkable career but also of the lively life of
the mind of a creative Individual approaching his hundredth year. The
viii
Interviewing became a continuing part of Mr. Gans' life as he found a need
to enhance* modify* or augment what had been recorded In preceding sessions.
Vivid Impressions of events as a young man were primarily on his mind, but
he also had present day experiences to relate. During the four years that
he worked on his oral history, he was Involved In significant activities,
came up with Imaginative Ideas, and new friends entered his life,
particularly after he acquired a powerful radio and an exceptional hearing
aid.
Throughout the Interviews Edward Gans would comment that each major
event he spoke of was the result of a "miracle" that just happened without
Input on his part. However, Lydla says he Is so open and supportive of
everyone around him that he causes the miracles to happen. He continues to
find new things to do, for example, taking piano lessons and composing
music. Recently, with his powerful hearing aid, he Is able to listen to
books on tape. His current reading project via taped books Is Professor
Page Smith's Trial By Fire. It Is volume five of seven volumes on the
History of the Civil War and Reconstruction. When he had finished the first
two volumes, he was so Impressed by the author's writing that he wrote a
letter to tel I him about It, noting that he will be one hundred years old on
August 27th. Professor Page Smith, of U.C. Santa Cruz, was so amazed at the
letter he received that he cal led Mr. Gans and came to see him. Now they
are friends, he comes often, and he brings his wife.
A telling quotation from Edward Gans' oral history was this comment
about the work of his adopted daughter, Lucy, and his daughter, Lydla:
Lucy Is working at the jail In Martinez. That's one of
six jails In this country In the modern style. She Is teaching
painting and she brings them music, and now she brings them
photography and encourages them. They try to help the Inmates.
So every one of my children does something for mankind, and that
Is what I'm proud of. Lydla Is teaching mathematics In China.
I don't do anything; It's Lydta's Idea to do al I this. It's
not the case that she would take more care of her father. No.
It Is all for mankind. But that Is, on the other hand, helping
people, and I am happy about It, and I like to encourage It.
Ora Huth
Interviewer-Editor
20 July 1987
Regional Oral History Office
486 The Bancroft Library
University of California at Berkeley
Regional Oral History Office lx University of California
Room 486 The Bancroft Library . Berlceley,' California 94720
BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION
(Please print or write clearly)
Your full name fc ^ 6*j A & D vAlJS
Date of birth
Father's full name • J
<J7 l%%? Place of birth //<t>»~/tcc4
Birthplace
Occupation _ /?7\lxL <>TX^h/T
*^st*^T*4
Mother's full name dAjvrJ^' XvnX) /Tl/X _J (
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Birthplace _ U
Occupation
Where did you grow up ?
Present community _____
Education /
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IL
Occupation(s)
Special interests or activities
(7
I EARLY CULTURAL AND BUSINESS LIFE IN HAMBURG: 1887 TO 1909
[Interview 1: September 22, 1983]##
•
The Earlv Years
Huth: Mr. Gans, will you please begin with your recollections of your
earliest years» beginning with some background about your family and
when you were born?
Gans: My father was born In 1840 In Hamburg and my mother was born In
Vienna In 1844. My mother was an actress — In Krefeld, Hamburg* and
at the Burgtheater In Vienna. Her maiden name was Carol Ine
Singer. I still have a well preserved poster noting her guest appear
ance there In 1869. She evidently preferred marriage to my father
to continuing her career. My mother was a very loving person. Her
main Interest was literature and she was a talented pianist. She
Instilled In me my love for music. In later years* when I took up
the violin* she accompanied me.
My parents married In 1870. Their first child was a daughter,
born In 1871. She had a slightly malformed back and remained at home
as a companion to my mother until her death In 1930. From 1872 to
1875, three sons were born: Alfred, In 1872; SIgmund, In 1874; and
Robert, In 1875. (SIgmund died In 1894). I arrived twelve years
later.
I was born In Hamburg, Germany on August 27, 1887, as the sixth
child and as a Nachkommer [latecomer]. My brothers were from twelve
to sixteen years older than I. The closest In age was twelve years
ol der.
##ThIs symbol Indicates that a tape or a segment of a tape has begun
or ended. For a guide to the tapes see page 203.
Cans: My father died in 1894 when I was six. I had virtually only women
around me, because I was brought up primarily by my mother and older
sister. This sister was slightly disabled because of the trouble
with her back, and as such, was a problem for her three younger
brothers. She always dealt with us In a not too friendly way, and
never married. She died in Thressionstatt in 1942.
The difference in age between me and my brothers meant I had
little contact with them. Besides, both left Hamburg at an early age.
It Is true that "a Hamburg boy" wanted to see the world. In his eyes,
Hamburg was a provincial town.
My older brother, Alfred, went to Berlin, where he had a job in a
bank. He soon established himself at the Berlin Stock Exchange. At
the exchange and in related circles were mostly young men whose
style of I ife was "We In. Weib und Gesang" [wine, women and song].
My younger brother, Robert, went to Paris. There, he was the
contact for his company. His Hamburg boss was the owner of a Paris
firm. Robert transferred to the Paris business. He married, had two
children, and probably would have led a happy life to his end, had
the war not come. Later, I also left Hamburg.
Schooling and Future Prospects
Gans: There is very little to say about my youth and schooling. My education
lay entirely in my mother's hands. I went to a private school.
Huth : Do you remember the name of the school?
Gans: Yes. I went to the private school of Dr. Theodor Wahnschaff. When a
special examination was passed, the military duty was only one year,
instead of two or three years. This was important for the future of
any German, and particularly for any Hamburg boy. I passed the
exami nation.
I was fifteen years old at that time, and my mother asked, "What
do you want to become?" I said, "I want to be a chemist." My mother
said, "I can't say anything about that. I have to ask the friends of
your father, who always advise me on what should be done." When the
friends heard that I wanted to be a chemist, they laughed and said,
"A chemist? Thafs not a Hamburg profession. Any decent Hamburg boy
has to be In a Hamburg business. All other stuff Is nonsense. We
will ask one of the big Hamburg export houses whether they will take
your son as an apprentice."
>
The Cans family (left to right): Edward Cans' brother, Alfred; his sister, therese;
Edward at age 27; his mother, Carolina; his mother's sister, Mathilde Broda; his sister-
in-law, Berthe (his brother Robert's wife); his nephew, Jacques (Robert's son); his
brother, Robert; and his nephew, Francois (Robert's other son). The occasion was the
celebration of Carolina Cans' 70th birthday at her apartment in Hamburg, Germany, on
July 28, 1914, the day the world burst asunder with World War I.
Cans: So it happened* three days later I was ordered to start my
apprenticeship at the export house of Simon, Israel and Company, one
of the four most important exporting houses in Hamburg.
Hamburg and Its Business Classifications
Cans: Speaking of the exodus of my brothers and I from Hamburg makes this
an appropriate place to say a few words about the city. Hamburg was
founded by Charlemagne in 800 A.D. as an Imperial Free City, and
throughout the nearly 1200 years of its existence it remained
independent and free. It was never subject to any other country,
ruler or city, with the exception of the few years under Napoleon.
When navigation of the seas began, the Hansa* was founded and Hamburg
was its leader. Thus when trade began some six centuries ago, the
Hamburg port was the greatest in Europe. The basic rule, valid for
centuries, was engraved over the portal of the city hall. It read:
"Navigare Necesse est; Vlvere Non" ('Trade is necessary; Life is
not.")
Speaking of my time in Hamburg at the turn of the century, the
new part of the city was beautiful, and the old part, ugly. As to
the citizens of the city, may he be a big industrialist or a
shopkeeper, everyone was striving to be called "honorable." One's
word could be relied on. A large transaction on the exchange was
closed with a scrap of paper, and a promise to deliver bread at
6:00 a.m. would be kept at 6:00 a.m. But who you were was important.
The tennis court or the skating rink belonged to a group of people
who called it a "club." If you wanted to skate or play tennis, you
had to become a member. You might be rich or poor. That didn't
matter, but when you were a shopkeeper, you could not be a member if
you could enter the shop directly from the street. If you had to
cl imb a few steps to enter the shop, you could get a membership card.
Bankers and owners of export and import houses belonged to the
top class. When they happened to be from a foreign country
(especially England), and, if they wore a high hat, they were
especially esteemed.
* Hansa: Hanseatic League, — a mercantile league of medieval German
towns. The league was never officially dissolved, and Lubeck, Bremen
and Hamburg are still known as the Hanseatic cities.
Gans: There was no set number who would attend, but one thing did happen
that was very amusing. Dr. Nlemeyer made a bet with his cellist that
he would learn the viola within three months in order to play a
quartet from Haydn. He won the bet and was so happy about It that
he called on his brother to take over his piano playing.
Incidentally* he was an old-fashioned general practice doctor.
An Amusing Event for Dr. Nlemeyer
Gans: There Is one amusing thing that I can mention now in connection with
Dr. Nlemeyer. We were leaving one night around twelve o'clock
midnight when the telephone rang. Nlemeyer came back from the
telephone with a rather unfriendly face. It was winter, and he said,
"Now I'm forced to drive to the Veddel." The Veddel is very far
outside Hamburg, at least one hour by buggy. We didn't have cars at
that time. That was in 1902.
Naturally, the next Sunday we talked about his trip to the
Veddel, and asked him, "What was so Important that you had to go to
the Veddel ?" Then he smiled and said, "It was very important. At
the door, the young husband told me, 'Doctor, Doctor, something
terrible has happened here. My wife has swallowed a Dutch Klentja.'"
A Dutch Klentja Is a very large bon-bon candy of the size of a potato.
He told us he asked the man, "She swallowed It?" He said, "Yes,
Doctor, she swallowed It." Dr. Nlemeyer told him, "That is a very
serious affair. You have to go to the pharmacy right away. Buy a
rubber bag and ice. Fill the bag with ice and renew the ice pack
every half hour until tomorrow morning." That was his treatment.
Huth: [laughs] That's an interesting story.
Singing with the Euthymia Club
Gans: Another activity was singing. I had quite a good voice as a boy.
There was the Euthymia, a singing club in Hamburg. It was also
called the Bleber Club, because of the conductor and founder,
August Bleber. This singing club sponsored three activities. One
activity was that once a year we gave a concert for men and boy's
voices. For the men there were two classes for baritone voices and
two classes for bass and tenor voices. For the boys there were
classes for alto and soprano voices.
Cans: Once a year a very entertaining concert was given, and that was
an event for Hamburg* because the members of the choir were very
often members of the so-called society. Very wealthy members
supported the club. I was around twelve years old at that time.
The second activity was the so-called Pf ingsten [Whitsuntide or
Pentecost] Tour, celebrating the big holiday, held seven weeks after
Easter. Tour means an excursion. We made excursions in the neighbor
hood of Hamburg and serenaded some wel l-known musicians who I Ived
close-by, and we had a good time for two or three days.
Cultivating a Love for Bach
Cans: A major activity was participation In Bach's St. Matthew's Passion.
The boys' choir sang solos and participated in the chorales. Dr.
Bieber used this performance to cultivate a love for Bach in the
singers.
During the intermission, the boys roamed through the big concert
building, but when they heard Dr. Bieber at the piano playing the
beginning of the St. Matthew's Passion, they slowly came back and
carefully listened to his wonderful playing of Bach. That Impressed
me as a boy.
I was an alto. Once I was supposed to get a solo, but it turned
out that my voice was already changing, so I didn't get it. During
that period I developed a love for music. I could tell a lot more
about music, but I think that's enough — Nlemeyer, Bach. The name
Niemeyer is well-known in Germany, because his uncle was a very
famous political lawyer. There were other musical enterprises In all
parts of Hamburg, but always on a relatively high and dilettantic
I eve I.
More on Music at Dr. Nianever's
Cans: One other story comes back that happened in connection with Dr.
Nlemeyer. There were always debates about the programs and unusual
pieces of music were proposed. The first viol Inist was at the same
time the concertmaster at the Hamburg Opera. He was requested to
bring one of his colleagues from the opera, someone who played an
unusual instrument such as a horn or flute.
8
Gans: One amusing thing happened when the Trout Quintet from Schubert
was proposed to be played. This required a piano» violin* viola*
cello* and contrabass. There was naturally no contrabass among regular
dilettantes* and the concertmaster brought a Mr. Gaithe* who was the
foremost contrabass! st at the opera. He was a charming old-fashioned
man. He took me aside* pointed to a place where I* as a viola
player, had a few solo parts to play» and he said to me, "These
measures you must pi ay so f ine. 53 f I ne as i f you woul d si ice w ith a
knife through goose fat." That was, for him, the greatest degree of
fineness — to "slice with a knife through goose fat." I know that as
if I could see him before me. I remembei — and that happened some
eighty years ago. At that time I was maybe fifteen years old.
Activities at Hamburg Snorts Clubs
Gans: The main activity for me at that time was music* singing* Geige
[violin], and viola. There were other activities, especially sporting
activities, that were taken pretty seriously. We played tennis in
summer and went skating in winter. All of these were engaged In from
specific sport clubs, which were unfortunately also exclusive. For
instance, people who owned a shop somewhere could not become members.
Huth: How did you become a member?
Gans: My mother was just a Rente [living from private income], living from
some means without having to earn a living. She had a regular income
that was not earned through an open shop. If ray mother had a drug
store business, I would have been nothing.
Huth: Was she well-known as an actress at that time?
Gans: No. She was unknown. She was just at the beginning of an acting
career and married early in her life.
II
Apprenti cesh I D In a Hambura Exnort House. 1 Q02
Huth: Now, let's move on to a new phase In your life* when you became an
apprentice at Simon, Israel and Company, the Hamburg export house.
Gans: I had to learn the most primitive things* how to add, how to paste a
Cans: stamp on an envelope* how to tie string around a parcel* and more
advanced activities came later.
Huth: What were your earnings at that time?
Cans: My earnings were a hundred marks a year, as an apprentice with low
earnings. The second year, I earned two hundred marks, and the next
year three hundred marks. I got It In one payment, and nothing
else—not even a Christmas present.
Huth: What were the rules of work— for example, as to time worked?
Cans: The normal rules were to work from nine to five, but very often more
time was required. It happened that for months I worked until seven
or eight o'clock at night, and sometimes until midnight. The
principal rule, which could never be comprcmised, was that every
Friday all of the mail had to be completed and on Its way. No
exceptions were allowed. That is the way of business for a reliable,
honorable Hamburg Kaufman [businessman]. You cannot give any
concessions in that respect. That Is the way it has to be done. Each
order was thoroughly checked, and when a reply was given, in one way
or another, it was checked off as having been completed.
Huth: What can you tell me about your boss at that time?
0
Cans: My boss was not only a gentleman, and very good-looking, but he had
the great advantage of having been born in England. An English
merchant was even a little more Important than a Hamburg merchant.
More on Musical Activities and Friends
Cans: This brings me to another musical affair. At two different times,
we young people had formed two orchestras, real orchestras. We gave
one concert every year, and we had very nice and interesting comrades
playing In the orchestras. One conductor, whose name I've forgotten,
had a sister who was about to become a soloist. For our concert, we
played one act of the Marriage of Figaro, and she was the soloist.
I remember one other very amusing conversation with one of my
friends. His name was Franz Monckeberg, the son of a Burgermei ster,
the "mayor" (highest official) of the city. That is Important. We
were quite good friends, because he sometimes accompanied me on the
piano. Once he said to me, "Do you know that our next-door neighbors
are the Simons, your boss from the Simon, Israel company?" "No," I
10
Cans: replied. Then Franz asked. "Why are the young Simons so hochnaslfl
[arrogant]?" This Is what he said about the sons of my boss. This
Is so typical of Hamburg. He was the son of a Burgermei ster, in
other words, like being the son of the king of Hamburg. Yet he could
complain that these sons from this other occupational category were
hochnaslg by saying, "Why are the sons so hochnaslg?" This is a
typical case for Hamburg, where an English export family could
pretend to be hochnaslg against the son of the mayor of Hamburg, a
very famous mayor. I could be friends with the son, but I would
never dare to see the Burgermei ster, and that Is so typical of
Hamburg.
Here you see that the sons of a first-rate export house owner,
who was born in Hamburg, considered themselves "finer" than a mayor's
son. Laborer's don't count. At the low end are shopkeepers and any
kind of laborer.
A Hamburg youth (those who really counted) had to learn the
trade during the first few years as an apprentice or beginner. Then
he had to acquire knowledge and experience from the other side of the
world — where the products came from. It was best to learn local
customs for those who were to receive Income from home products.
However, there were some young men who wanted to forget the dry
Hamburg I ife. and so they went to London, Paris, and Berl in.
Hamburg was really dry, particularly for young people. This had
nothing to do with its size, because it was the second largest city
In Germany. The cultural aspect was sparsely represented and even
less cultivated. So-called entertainment was non-existent.
Advancement In the Export Business at Aae 17, 1904 to 1909
Huth: Now, we are ready for the story about your boss.
Gans: I was working one night. It was close to midnight when I heard
footsteps, and my boss appeared. He asked, "What are you doing here
so late?" And when I started to give him an explanation, he said.
"Enough, enough, you will tell me tomorrow." He did, and I told him
that the head of my department, a Mr. Vogelsang, had been sick, that
he asked me to bring him all of the correspondence concerning our
customers, that I was visiting him when he told details from this
correspondence to some of his friends who were also visiting him, and
that these persons were employees of our competitors. I also
told my boss that Mr. Vogelsang knew very well that I worked during
the night, and that he didn't even have a thank-you for all my work.
My boss only replied, "Gans, take one lesson. In business life,
gratitude does not exist."
11
Huth: How old were you then?
Gans: I was seventeen. I have always been a good* responsible employee.
When I say I will come at one o'clock, I come at one o'clock. That
is my way of life. I could succeed In all my endeavors — because I
paid my bills on the day I got them. That's just the way I was — my
Hamburg education, in that respect, was a part of me. But what was
anti-Hamburg, the art, was also Inside me. So I had the good side
from both. That is why I wanted to talk about that.
Huth: We needed to hear about your I ife in Hamburg. Now, what happened as
a result of that episode with your boss?
Gans: Mr. Vogelsang was dismissed. I got to try out in his position, and I
could keep it. I worked in that job for another year or two. I was
head of a department for trade with Morocco and the Canary Islands,
and also for India and China.
In business as well as in lifestyle, there was a strict moral
code and customs that governed. Here is an example: a newly
establ Ished commodity firm grew very fast and was very successful.
Then came failure, and there was an attempt to repair It unlawfully.
The firm's owner appealed to his brother for help. The brother agreed
and everything was settled, under one condition — the firm's owner had
to shoot himself on his parents' grave, and his brother agreed he
would take care of the widowed wife and the child for life. That is
what he did, and then the firm's partner, who was of 'Berlin"
caliber, was sent to America.
Impact of Hamburg Expectations on Private Life
Gans: I have one more thing to tel I about Hamburg. The private I ife was
also typical of Hamburg. There is one event that Is especially
typical of Hamburg. My neighbors were a family of two or three boys,
and one girl. It was a neighborly friendship. With the boys I
played chess; with the girl I went dancing. I regularly met her at
the city's official dancing events. We went dancing In the after
noons and in the evenings. Anyway, what was typical was that she was
not among my closest friends. But when I moved from Hamburg to Berlin
she was the only one who accompanied my mother and sister to the
station and to the train for a farewell. This was the first and last
time I got a kiss from a girl in Hamburg — not from any other girl or
from her before this time. That was my first kiss. That Is a "sketch"
of life in Hamburg at the turn of the century. All that was part of
the life as compared with today. That was a chapter on Hamburg.
12
Huth: Do you want to continue with the next events In your life?
Cans: I feel I can talk until tomorrow, [laughter] I'm happy to be absolved
of al I my other concerns.
Huth: I have some more time.
Cans: Good. You tell me when we should end for the day.
Huth: So, shal I we move on to Berl In?
Gans: Now comes Berlin.
13
II LIFE IN BERLIN AS REMISS IER, HUSBAND, ARMY RESERVIST,
AND BANKER: 1909 TO 1925
Move to Berl in in 1909
Huth: How did you happen to go to Berlin?
Cans: Many of the most important events In my life happened by chance,
without the need for me to make any decisions or to Influence what
happened. This was one of those unusual events.
I got a telephone call from my brother In Berlin, who told me
that he was going to separate from his partner, and that his boss,
Mr. Oscar Rosenberg, owner of the firm 0. R. Rosenberg and Company,
London and Vienna, would be In Berlin the next Sunday. He said it
might be a good idea that I meet him. At that time, my brother also
represented foreign banking firms in New York and Paris.
Becoming a Foreign Bank Representative
Gans: When I met Mr. Rosenberg, he looked at me and asked, "Would you like
to join your brother?" I said, "Yes." He said, "What do you earn at
the present time?" When I said, "Two hundred marks," he replied that
he would offer me three hundred marks.
Huth: That's per year?
Gans: Yes. Natural ly, I accepted. And from a Hamburg exporter, I became a
Berlin rem issier. as the profession of my brother was called. It
simply meant a representative of an aus landlsch [foreign] banking
f I rm.
14
Huth: How did your boss react?
Gans: When I Informed my boss in Hamburg accordingly, he remarked that I
should have told him before I decided. He said he had Intended to
send me to South America* but now it was too late. Naturally, my
vacation was also cancelled.
Huth: Do you want to take a rest now?
Gans: I am agitated. I can talk for hours. As long as you can
conti nue.
Huth: I'm all set. Shall we go ahead?
Gans: We can continue. Now comes Berlin.
Trans! tion to a Berl In L ifesty le
Gans: The Berl In life was a 100 percent change. I did not live with my
mother and sister any more. I I Ived with two Hamburg friends who had
also moved to Berlin. One was a friend from the tennis club. We can
pass over this period of my life easily. Nothing much happened about
which I can be proud.
Huth: How old were you when you moved to Berl in?
Gans: I was twenty-two years old.
Huth: Do you remember what year you made this move?
Gans: It happened in 1909. What struck me mainly in the first few years was
the unsolidity of the general life In Berlin. Everything was a gamble.
Huth: Not solid like back in Hamburg?
Gans: Yes. Hamburg was everything solid. In Berlin, everything was a
gamble. The stock exchange was 100 percent a gamble, in any kind of
shares, and so were the activities of my brother's and my business,
except that the gambling took place in London or Paris or New York,
or somewhere else.
15
Teletype Connection Expands Business
Gans: We had the good luck to be the first to get In contact— with the
fernschreiber.
Huth: What does that mean?
Gans: This Is an instrument, similar to a telephone, through which we
conducted business from our office — probably a form of teletype
equipment. At the same time, we had an agent In the German city of
Emden. They had the end connection of the first American-German
cable. It was called the New York-Azores-Emden Cable.
##
Gans: Our communications were much faster than the regular postal service.
At the same time we were always in contact by telephone with our
twenty customers, because we had twenty direct telephones, one for
each customer. They were morally obliged to give their orders to us.
By telephone or teletype we would buy five hundred steel, buy a
thousand steel, or buy so-and-so in London, or buy this-and-
that in Paris. It was all a gamble, and nothing but a gamble.
Huth: Was it all dealing in stocks or bonds?
Gans: Yes. Only in stocks, bonds, or whatever.
Edward Gans. Registered Banker in 1910
Gans: Now comes a very funny story. At one time — I believe It was In New
York — a law was promulgated that a representative of a New York firm
could not represent any other firm. So my bosses said to me, "We
will make an arrangement. You set up a separate firm to take the
representation of New York, and our firm will keep all the European
representation. But let us be on the safe side. You go to the
respective German legal office to have your firm registered.
So far it was simply "Alfred Gans, Representative," Now It was
ordered that every firm in New York have a different representative.
So my brother Alfred said, "Edward Is the representative in New York,
and I will keep all the other ones."
16
Gans: So I appeared at the legal office and the old-fashioned fellow
in charge there asked me. "You want to register your firm, Edward
Gans? Okay. What are you?" I said, "I am a remissier." "What is
that?" he questioned. 'There is no such thing as a remissier. A
remissier is a trader for a foreign Bankhaus [bank]. You are a
representative or a foreign banker." He continued. "So you are either
a representative or you are a foreign banker. Nothing else exists."
Huth: Nothing in between, [laughs]
Gans: Being well aware of the aversion to the word "representative," I
chose the word "banker." And with this I was given the title
"banker," which became extremely worthwhile, because after World War I
It was extremely difficult to be registered as a banker.
My firm, "Edward Gans," was, as I proudly proclaimed, registered
as a Bankgeshaft in 1910, four years before the First World War.
Only because this idiot dared not put "remissier" down. "What's a
remissier?" he said. That's the way I became a banker.
Trading in Foreign Securities Only, 1910 to 1914
Gans: I was never employed as a banker and never learned banking in all my
life.
Huth: So even though you were officially titled a "banker," you continued
to work In the trading of stocks and bonds.
Gans: Yes. I was only a representative. I sent a cable, "Mr. So-and-so
buys 500 steel," period. Nothing more. I was a representative.
This was in 1910.
I think that from then on, as far as my life was concerned,
everything became art, and everything concerned with business was of
no interest. I became a lover of collecting, and nothing else. I
hated my profession, and today I hate it. This was in 1910.
17
Meeting First Wife. Paula. In 1912: the Real Story to Come Later
Cans: I met my first wife, Paula, in 1912. We were married for fourteen
years and then she passed away. Then I felt as if my life was
finished. The story is much too Involved and too Important to tell
today.
Now, for the sake of continuity, I will continue to talk about
business events until the end of World War I, and only incidentally
tell about my first marriage.
Huth: We'll come back later to the period of your first marriage.
Ml I itarv Reserve Service During Worl d War I ; 1914 to 1918
Cans: The war broke out in 1914. My military passport noted the fact that I
needed a hearing aid and that my military orders would be delayed
cal I reserve. The most qua I if ied were cal led very early. I was not
called for army duty until March, 1915.
Since I was never dec I ared el igi bl e for m i I i tary serv ice w ith
any weapon, I was classified for active duty only with a shovel. I
was immediately sent to a digging regiment in Glogau. With what
turned out to be good luck for. me, the regiment's pay master was
sick. This led to the transfer of all money affairs to the top
sergeant. Since the sergeant had no background In money affairs, on
the first day he asked all newcomers, "What Is your profession?"
When I was the only one who could say, "I'm a banker," he immediately
called me and said, "From now on your office is In the writing room."
Because of this, during the war I never had a shooting instrument In
my hand.
There were several colleagues working at a writing desk. All
were former businessmen, all as qualified as I was for these writing
jobs. We all worked very hard. I remember that there were nights when
we worked all night, but it was still better than going to the front.
Huth: How many years were you In that office?
Cans: I worked In that office for one and a half years. Then I tried to get
a different kind of duty. There were jobs available for limited
service army personnel, because government controlled firms were
18
Gans: established for the manufacture of scarce articles. For example*
there were companies for leather* for certain metals* and for all
kinds of textiles. Luck brought me Into contact with one of the
officials of the government's textile company. He engaged me* and I
was employed there for a year.
Huth: Were you still in the army at this time?
Gans: Yes. As the war progressed* there were military reverses and all of
these government firms had to discharge some employees. One activity
deserves notice. Naturally* this was a time when the government
needed money.
Aiding Germany's War Loan Efforts
Gans: Germany's war loans were advertised through the press and other
means. I was Informed about It and thought of a way to help. I
decided to write to the commanding officer* a General Von
Brauchltsch. I suggested that all soldiers be Informed about the
importance of contributing to the war loan* and that I* as a banker*
would know how to inform the soldiers about their opportunity to
contribute. I also asked that I be allowed to offer a soldier
participating in the war loan a couple days of furlough for his
contribution.
Two days later the adjutant, a Lieutenant Findeklee, called me
to his office. I gave him a personal report about my suggestions.
The next day he cal led me again to tel I me the general had approved
my Idea and that every half-hour I could give my Ideas about the war
loan to a group of fifty or a hundred men. When I said* "If you
sign a hundred mark loan* I can give you a three-day furlough," they
all signed. The first time I brought three hundred thousand marks
together, and the second time over a million marks. We did that
every six months* and we doubled our receipts each time.
After the second great success. Lieutenant Findeklee called me:
"We would I ike to do something for you. Do you have a special wish?"
I said I would like to have the Iron Cross, fashioned in white on
black ribbon. The Iron Cross was usually fabricated with the
decoration In black on white ribbon. But for civil purposes, the
white on black ribbon was used. In other words, this had to do
with turning the decoration around.
19
Gans: A couple of days later, the lieutenant called me and said, Ml
can understand your request, but I cannot ask the general to do it,
because he himself doesn't have the Iron Cross. That would look as If
he would also like to order one for himself. I will tell you
something. Instead of the Iron Cross, you will be promulgated a
"super I urn I nary soldier."
Huth: And what did that mean?
Gans: That I was still a regular soldier, but Instead of being an ordinary
one I was a "super I urn i nary." The description was printed In a pass
port that I still have which reads: uberzahllger Gefreiter.
Huth: So you were something special.
Gans: I was something special. That lasted a couple of months until I was
assigned to a different city, the city of Gorlitz.
Huth: So you left Glogau, where you were stationed when you were doing al I
this ill ustrious work.
Gans: Yes. Now the situation became critical. Even the most crippled were
cal led to the army.
Huth: Do you know what year this was?
Gans: That was in early 1918. It was very difficult to find any possibility
to avoid dangerous service but I was offered one.
Service with the Blumenstein Firm in Berl in, 1918
Gans: I met a certain Mr. Blumenstein. He had one patent with which he
could make sandbags out of paper yarn. These were used to replace
all the millions of sandbags used for the protection of soldiers In
the di gs.
Huth: In the trenches?
Gans: Yes, the trenches. Millions and millions of such sandbags were made
and consumed, and Mr. Blumenstein had a monopoly, because he was the
greatest maker of these bags. As such, he had a certain Influence,
and he was allowed to have five employees. Since he had only claimed
four people when we met, he decided to hire me. I stayed with the
Blumenstein concern until the end of the war.
20
Huth: Was this In the same city of Gorlitz?
Gans: No. that was in Berlin. Bl umenstein's central office was in Berlin,
where I worked until the end of the war.
Huth: So you got back to Berl in again.
Gans: Blumenstein was an extremely smart industrialist, but when we met, he
was nothing but a bag dealer, dealing with old bags. When I entered
the Bl umenstein firm, he had forty million marks lying in different
banks without interest.
Huth: Did you help him do something with the money?
Gans: I told him what to do to get at least interest on it, and how to
invest. From this point on, the Blumenstein firm grew and grew until
the end of the war, when I suggested that he should buy a bank in
order to Invest all the profits.
Becoming a Real Banker: The Kol on! al bank. 1918 to 1925
Gans: Blumenstein did indeed buy a Berlin bank called the Koloni al bank.
This bank had only one director, by the name of Julius Hel Imann. He
made me co-director. But a week later Blumenstein had a terrific
fight with Hel Imann, and he decided to leave the bank. He gave me the
choice of remaining In the bank or coming back Into his concern in
some other position. The whole fight was so unpleasant that I
decided to choose the first alternative. I separated from
Blumenstein, and I was now for the first time a real bank director.
Huth: Before you were a registered banker, but now you were real I y a
banker.
Gans: Yes.
Huth: Do you think we should stop now and come back another day?
Gans: I will finish talking about my whole banking career until the end of
the Kolonialbank — before I talk about Paula.
Huth: Yes, I think that's a good idea. That makes a lot of sense to put
the banking experience all together, and if you wish, go on to your
life with Paula. How do you feel? Do you want to take a rest now?
Gans: I can talk until tomorrow! I've never felt as good as I feel. Shall
I continue then?
21
Huth: Yes. go right ahead.
Austrian Connection and the Deutsche Landerbank
Cans: The Kolonialbank was extending a loan. There was no money to
finance it, and Hellmann and I were looking for people who would be
interested in joining our bank. Through a mutual friend, we found
the Oesterreichiche Landerbank, NV, that bought shares in our bank
and renamed it the Deutsche Landerbank. Oesterreichiche means
Austria. The Oestereich iche Landerbank had big plans, but none really
succeeded, and they decided to sell their one quarter shares of the
Kolonialbank, our bank, to one of their shareholders by the name of
Oscar von Korner. Do you have time?
Huth: Yes.
Gans: Von Korner was a genial, enterprising person of the greatest style,
but unfortunately, he also had a little bit of a gambling vein. The
first enterprise that was under my supervision was the opening of a
branch office in Hamburg. This worked out very well. I supervised
it, and went to Hamburg every four weeks or so.
We planned a similar enterprise In Silesia, which did not work
out, but it gave me the opportunity to meet a fellow who played a
large role in my life by the name of Kurt Kruger. He was a kind of
certified accountant, and brilliant.
The last enterprise, which did not succeed, was a branch office
opened in Dusseldorf, in which a number of the great Rheinish
industrialists intended to participate, but again, I did not want to
go through with it.
Huth: Why not ?
Gans: Because behind the director of this branch, there was a lot of
illegal gambling, which was detected at the right time.
22
Acquiring Fine Banking Property
Gans: A great event also happened at that time, around 1921. The real
estate agent in Berlin, who was supposed to be the leading one, told
me under strict confidence that undoubtedly the finest property in
the city was for sale. Everybody knows it. It is the corner of
Unter den Linden and Brandenburger Tor [Brandenburg Gate].
Unter den Linden is like Market Street here. The most famous
street In Berlin, [goes to get picture off his wall, which he
describes] Here was the Brandenburger Tor, and here Is the palace of
the emperor. This street, Unter den Linden, connects with the
palace. That is the building, and that's the French embassy, and
that is the Pariser Platz (the Platz [place] of Paris). And this,
together with the house there — actually, it's three houses — I bought
all of it for ninety million marks. This block consists of five
houses, situated at the corner of Unter den Linden and Pariser Platz,
next to the French embassy. Four more houses are attached and
located on neighboring streets. It was the biggest and finest deal,
and probably the finest real estate property in Germany.
New Location and Leadership, 1921
Gans: It was around 1921 when a new bank building was erected there. This
put Deutsche Landerbank at the same level as many other banks, not a
great bank, but I ike many other bankhouses.
Huth: Were you a director of this bank?
Gans: Yes, when von Korner bought the shares of the Landerbank, he also put
his brother-in-law in as a director. His name was Mr. Hoffmann. So
now there were three directors, Hellmann, Hoffmann and me. In this
connection, I will mention that we had entered Into a contract with
Professor Nlkodem Caro, who was the inventor of nitrogen. This
relationship was a very friendly one, and later on Nlkodem's brother
also became a co-director. There were now four directors. All of
this happened in a time of high inflation.
'23
Takeover by I. G. Farbenlndustrie, 1925
Gans: The inflation ended in the fall of 1923. Unfortunately, in this year
and in the next year following, 1923 and 1924, von Korner made a lot
of unfortunate speculations and lost all of his money. He committed
suicide and his shares came on the market. Now another person, who
also happened to be a friend of my colleague, Hel Imann, entered into
action that brought the I. G. Farbenlndustrie into our bank. To make a
long story short, this concern bought the shares from von Korner,
because they wanted to have this building.
Everything that was the business of the Deutsche Landerbank was
liquidated, all plans were canceled, and the Deutsche Landerbank was
declared to be the Hausbank of the I. G. Farbeni ndustri e.
Huth: What does Hausbank mean?
Gans: That means it belongs only to the one controlling house or business
that has no other bank branches.
ti
Gans: The first to be dismissed was Hel Imann, who had always been unpopular.
The next was Hoffmann. After his brother-in-law's death he had
nothing more to do there. Then it was my turn.
Here, I would like to make a few remarks. The main personality
at the I. G. Farbeni ndustrie concern was Gehelmrat Schmitz.
Geheimrat — that's a title, privy councillor. I will use it, because
he's always known by that. I wanted to arrange a meeting with him.
But nothing came out of it until I met him one day at the front of
the door of the business. I told him that I urgently wnated to talk
with him, and he promised he would come to my office after lunch.
After lunch, the discussion took place. I told him about our plans
for a "real" bank. I explained we could have done this much earlier
but that no one had ever discussed it. I said it was a crime to
leave out such an opportunity. His reply was, "You are right, but
why didn't you say this to me earl ier?" I could only shrug my
shoulders and say, "I could never reach you."
Hitler on the Horizon: Exclusion from I. G. Farbenlndustrie
Gans: One added remark here. In real ity we were now in 1925, and the
Hitler idea had already taken hold. There were no Jews in the
management of the I. G. Farbeni ndustrie anymore. Through my
24
Gans: friendship with Mr. Kruger, whom I mentioned before, they used me for
secret business, which I did for the concern. But a Jewish official
in the concern was impossible.
Huth: How long did you work for that firm?
Gans: I quit after seven years and reopened my Edward Gans — Bankgeshaft.
In my next interview — I will speak of my marriage and of my
first wife, Paula.
Paula Cans, Edward Cans' first wife, ca. 1914,
25
-
Ill TWO MARRIAGES: LIFESTYLE CHANGES AND ANTIQUITY ART COLLECTING;
1912 TO 1926
[Interview 2: September 28, 1983]## -
Huth: Mr. Gans, today we agreed that you would talk about your marriage to
your first wife, Paula, a notable phase In your life, and the
beginnings of your Interest In antiquities and art collecting.
Meeting Paula Muller in 1912
Gans: I must go back to the year 1912. It was our custom that on hoi I days
and birthdays we visited our mother In Hamburg. That year, on the
return on the second day after Easter, I had a seat next to a young
lady with whom I soon came to a nice talk. She had also visited her
mother In Hamburg. She also worked In Berlin, and I think I will
start telling a little bit about her life. Her name was Paula
Mul ler.
She lost her father when she was a baby. Then her mother
married a Norwegian professor, and while she was still a child of
one or two years, she moved to Norway. Her stepfather had a little
farm near Oslo. He was a close friend of such leading Norwegian
poets as Ibsen, Bjornsen, and Strlndberg, who were guests In their
house. Unfortunately, her father had tuberculosis, and the
tuberculosis was transferred to her eldest stepsister. Then followed
three boys, who, strangely enough, were never Infected by this
Illness and who died at advanced ages. The youngest one Is still
al tve.
When the stepfather died, around 1900, they moved back to
Hamburg, but Paula didn't find any adequate job. She moved to
Berlin, where she found a very small job on the Unter den Linden, In
26
Gans: a small shop selling antique art objects and small luxury objectsi
including fine papers. The owner of the place» a certain Mr. Max
Heppner, was a connoisseur of antiquities, in particular Oriental
objects. They soon added such articles* and eventually transferred
the luxury business into an antiquity business. Paula and I talked
about these antiquities.
Now I will talk about things that I forgot to mention in my last
i ntervi ew.
Love for Art in the Hamburg Years
Gans: It occurs to me that earlier I had an Interest in art and antiquities.
When I went to my office in Hamburg/ I chose a side road in order to
be able to cast a glance into the gal lery of Louis Bach, where modern
paintings were exhibited. I still remember Bocklin's work exhibited
there, especially his painting titled. Island of the Dead, that was
much discussed in Hamburg papers and which made a great impression
upon me.
On an entirely different level was a school comrade by the name
of Herbert Hecht, whose father owned a big building in the city
f 1 1 led w ith so-cal I ed ant I quit! es. Once I was all owed to visit him
in this house. I was much impressed by the wealth of paintings,
furniture and other objects. In retrospect. I must say this house
looked more like a junk shop than an art shop.
Anyway. In my heart there must have always been an incl ination
for and interest in art objects. And it came forward only when I saw
the treasures at the Glenk Shop — Mr. Heppner's shop. Mr. Heppner
maintained the old luxury business name for his firm. The shop was
always under the name "Glenk."
Changing Lifestyle and Trio to Paris
Gans: I slowly learned the differences In the quality of art objects. I
also changed my lifestyle entirely. I took a new room near the zoo.
Paula kept her modest apartment in the Tiergarten Quarter, I crossed
the Tiergarten every morning, met Paula at the station, and we walked
to our respective business quarters, which took us about three
27
Cans: quarters of an hour. For lunch we met at a vegetarian place. This
was convenient, because business hours started at four o'clock In the
afternoon, and lasted until about nine or ten o'clock in the evening
due to the time difference between our New York firm and our Berl in
dcmi ci I e.
The weekends we could spend together, and occasional ly my
brother took over my business activities.
Huth: How old were you and Paula then?
Gans: I was twenty-five years of age and Paula was eight years older. The
difference In age I really did not real ize to be the fact, because
the difference di dn't matter.
In the same year, 1912, I made a trip to Paris, at the
invitation of my younger brother who was twelve years older than I.
Huth: [laughs] Your younger brother?
Gans: Yes.
Huth: What do you mean, "younger brother who was twelve years older"?
Gans: My other brother in Berlin was my elder brother, who was fifteen
years ol der.
Huth: Now I understand. This was your younger older brother I
Gans: On this trip, It was my ambition to show Paula what I had learned
from her. So I went about shopping in Paris in the small, unusual
places at the Quais, along the River Seine. Here, there were small
boutiques where small dealers had their places of business. When I
returned to Berlin, I was very proud because Paula told me that my
purchases were not very important, but at least genuine.
These first two years of our friendship were probably the
greatest of my life. After that, the First World War broke out, and
everything changed entirely.
Wartime Changes. 1914
Gans: My job as a remissier changed because there was no contact anymore
between Berlin and New York. Mr. Heppner, Paula's boss, was already
ailing, and spent the next two years In the hospital. His
antiquities business had undergone a major change shortly before his
28
Gans: Illness. The business moved to a very large rental space to become a
luxury store located on Unter den Linden Street. All of this was
under the sole care of Paula.
I had a hearing deficiency and was called to the army a few
months after the war began. For five years, Paula managed the big
store alone. A few words about the antiquity business in Berlin
mi ght be i n order.
The Antiquity Business in Berl in
Gans: There were three leading places, the Glenk Shop, deal ing mostly in
Oriental art objects; van Dam, trading in European porcelain; and
Hei I bronner's, dealer in fine old furniture, classical, French and
English pieces that were a hundred twenty or more years old.
Besides, there were scores and scores of smal ler shops deal ing with
objects of smaller importance and quality. To support his first-
class quality business, Mr. Heppner made frequent trips to other
capital cities in Europe, where he acquired objects worthy of his
shop. It was a great honor for him to be appointed antiquarian for
the court.
Mr. Heppner died In 1915, and all the Glenk Shop's business was taken
over by Paula until the end of the war. Paula had a heart ailment,
which was a terrible strain for her. But with her energy, she
managed to maintain her job until the end of the war.
There were no employees except a janitor. The cl ientele In
cluded people of great importance. The emperor himself CWIIhelm II]
came once or twice. Other personal ities who came were from the
court, the police, the military, the theater, and naturally the
leading scholars from museums in Germany and from neutral countries.
I visited the place as often as I could. I remember the
designer, Faberge, who showed his latest creations there and who told
about his latest acquisition of French paintings. There was also a
Mr. Hanover from Copenhagen and the brothers Cassierer, who were
renowned as art gallery catalog publishers. One brother was a
philosopher, the other was an industrialist. They were all
interesting persons, and it was a great honor to have a talk with Max
Reinhardt and other well-known personalities. Mr. Heppner told an
29
Gans: amusing anecdote concerning one of these collectors. He was a high
official of the police* a great connolsseui — and Kleptoman
[kleptomaniac!, or rather, a half-one. He took a little porcelain
figure standing In the back of the room and put It In the middle of
the room. At his next visit, the figure was standing near the exit,
and finally, It disappeared. Evidently, his conscience won out, and
the figure reappeared after six months or so.
Limited Military Service and Marrianp. 1914-1918
Gans: A few months after the beginning of the war, I was inducted Into the
army, and Paula and I joined together in marriage, early in 1915.
My military duties lay mostly in the province of Silesia.
Because of my hearing difficulties, I was registered In the last
category of reserves to be called. It meant that I could not serve
as a regular soldier, but only In civilian activities such as
bookkeeping and working with military statistics.
Huth: How did this change affect Paula?
Gans: This meant that Paula and I were able to be together more often. I
got a furlough every six weeks or so.
The pol iceman mentioned earl ier was Influential. He was able to
get tickets for us for various cultural events. For example, he
would telephone to the director of the opera house, and because
everybody wanted something from the police, he could say, "I need two
tickets." Through him we could get tickets to whatever we wanted to
go to. Since he was a friend of ours, we only needed to telephone to
ask for opera or play tickets.
We talked about the military stuff already, didn't we?
Huth: Yes. What we didn't talk about was how all of this related to Paula.
We didn't mention her when we talked about the military last time,
because we were going to talk about her this time. It would be
appropriate to describe how the military life fit in with your
married I if e.
Gans: I remember another amusing story. Among the customers of Glenk were
a goodly number of higher military men. I remember a man whose name
I do not want to mention because he was attached to the German
military ambassador's office In New York. He needed the help of a
certain soldier for some personal purpose, so he wrote, "Please give
30
Gans: this man a couple of days vacation." Such a letter* addressed to the
commandant of a battal ion in the regiment was enough to get the man
f urloughed.
Huth: So he had the power to do this.
Gans: You can Imagine what happens when a general writes to a Hfluptman*
Paula always had a way to important persons* so letters were
addressed to various commanders where I served in order to get
furloughs for me.
During the last year or two of the war, Paula's heart started to
give way, and only with the utmost effort could she carry on the
management of the firm until the end of the war.
On the other hand, my activities for the Blumenstein Kunst
[concern] — Blumenstein was the sack makei — for the paper bag concern
I talked about last time — he gave me a decent income, so we could
I ead a decent I if e.
Toward the end of the war, and through my work for the bag
concern, we earned a modest living, and we found a decent apartment
on the Bismarkstrasse in Berl in-Charlottenburg, a section of Berlin.
Inflation had already started.
The owner of the house on Bismarkstrasse, where our apartment
was located, offered me the house for sale, and I could acquire it at
a reasonable price. The apartment had two bedrooms, a dining room, a
living room, and a library, and as an added amenity, a room for
Paula's favorite collection, art from Africa and Polynesia.
##
At War1 s End: Enter I no Bankina and Modern Art Col I ect i nc
Gans: The First World War ended in 1918. About the same time Paula gave up
her business and I entered my banking life. At this time, our
lifestyle changed. Collection, as such, became less important. We
bought objects needed in our household — for Instance, here and there
a piece of furniture or a carpet.
For Paula there was an urge to get into nature, after having
been tethered to her art business for twenty or more years. She took
trips to Switzerland. She loved the sea, and her favorite place was
the little village of Keitum on the Island of Sy I t, where she bought
a little old cottage. Paula's ailing heart left her no peace, and
31
Gans: there was permanent unrest In her style of life. After dinner she
rented an open cab, and ordered the driver to take her through the
woods and lakes in the neighborhood, returning sometimes after three
or four hours.
What had been an Interest In antiquities and ancient art objects
from all over the world suddenly changed into an interest In modern
art. The art of the Berliner Seccession (1915) became our special
interest. We developed friendships with artists Corinth, Trubner and
Pottner, and particularly with Em i I Pottner, the Graph lea and
Keramica (graphics and ceramics artist).
The art represented by the Brucke Gal lery was favored by
connoisseurs. Herwarth Wai den, the director of the gallery, and his
wife befriended Paula. I must admit that I could not follow her taste
for modern art.
Paula also joined the circle of Rene Sintenls, whose charming
work in small metal animals became the fashion at that time.
The Art Qb iect Col lection
Gans: Considering our modest Income, we tried to find a few nice things In
small shops — sometimes successfully, and sometimes not. But
naturally, all of these little pieces could not compare with the
treasures you could find at the Glenk Shop. We especially admired
one large Chinese vase at the Glenk. It still stands before my eyes
today — a blue K'ang-Hse vase, which Mr. Heppner had priced at a
hundred and eighty marks. At that time, this was quite unreachable
for us. Mr. Heppner, who had observed our love for this object, said
to me, "I will make you a price of a hundred and fifty marks. You
can pay me thirty marks every month." He was a true gentleman.
We collected in periods. Most collectors, trying to Improve
their collections in a particular period, discover that the prices
rise in comparison with when they began. Soon they are limited in
the purchases they can afford and have to change to some other
collecting category. This was the case for us in connection with our
collections of Chinese art, and Greek and Roman classical art.
Huth: Were these pieces you were collecting at that time mainly large
pieces? You mentioned the vase was a large vase. Did the Chinese
and classical art objects tend to be big?
Gans: No. Classical art Is mostly very small, and valuable Chinese art
pieces are always quite large.
32
Reflections on Collecting Quality Art Objects
Gans: Daula was acquainted with a Dr. Phllipp Lederer, who was the only
numismatist and dealer in classical art in Berlin. Once he showed me
a necklace consisting of gold beads and gray faience* and a pendant
with a little armor of gold. When he told me that this necklace was
made by the Greeks in the third century B.C.. I found it difficult to
believe. I could not visualize that jewelry could survive thousands
of years. I purchased it as my first Christmas gift to Paula, and I
decided from then on my Paula should only wear jewelry that was
unique. Any rich man can acquire a diamond at the jewelry store that
weighs a karat more than a diamond another man gives to his wife.
But this Greek necklace is art that cannot be dupl icated.
Naturally. I experienced disappointments. I could find enough
necklaces or rings, and sometimes even earrings that were not too
delicate, but other kinds of objects that were called "gold jewelry"
were unwearable. So we collected classical objects in general, some
made of gold, but in the main, glass, terra-cotta. or other material.
We called our collection "general objects." In all of Germany, there
were only four collectors in this field: Baura Schiller, who had
invented a glass machine with which he made a lot of money (he
preferred large gold objects, such as diadems and belts); Oscar
Wasserman. director of the Deutschebank, a collector specializing in
the finest handicrafts; a Mr. Loeb in Munich, whom I never met; and
our collection of unusual objects. This was how we got started in
col lectl ng.
it
I went daily to my place of business, the stock exchange. It
was a very uninteresting activity, and every word said about It is
too much. After the exchange closed. I went over a bridge into the
so-called museum quarter, bordered by one of the oldest streets in
Berlin, called Der Kupf ergraben.
The Lederer Connection Leads to Significant Collecting
Gans: Dr. Philipp Lederer owned one of the oldest houses on Der
Kupf ergraben. a house that did not even have a bathroom. It was
located opposite the Berlin coin cabinet [museum]. When I entered
Lederer's apartment, I always said, "Here comes the camel going into
the oasis. Please show me something to refresh my mind."
33
Cans: I visited him often* but one day twill never forget, a day when
Dr. Lederer told me a story, saying, "There was a German professor
who loved Egypt and who went to live In Egypt towards the end of the
last century. He lived there for at least twenty or thirty years, and
had to return to Germany with the outbreak of World War I In 1914.
He died a few years later. Before his death, he brought back many
things, among which were two most unusual items, which he offered to
sell to me. The first object was a set of jewelry for a dol I,
including a miniature ring made of gold and two of the tiniest of
earrings, also made of gold. The other part of the set was a
necklace made of faience and golden links." Che shows picture of it]
Huth: And this Is Illustrated in this Summa Gallery catalog, isn't it?
Gans: Yes. That's an enlargement of the earrings.
Huth: It's very beautiful.
Gans: Fantastic. Lederer said to me, "You must dream about it." There
must have been a father or a grandfather who loved his grandchild,
who ordered his jeweler to copy, in the smal lest possible form, a
larger piece of jewelry belonging to his daughter for the child. The
jewel er di d this.
Huth: It's very beautiful. The photograph doesn't do justice to it, I'm
sure.
Gans: I cannot give a name to the second piece he showed me that day, but I
will describe it later. It is a story in itself. Now I must
interrupt my story about the tiny objects.
Much Later, in 1940, in America; Confirmation of Quality
Gans: At this point I will tell about a related conversation I had in the
year 1940 with Miss Gisela Richter, who was the curator of the
Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and recognized as one of the
leading world authorities in jewelry from antiquity. When she saw
the doll jewelry, she became very excited, she wanted to buy it, but
she said my price exceeded the I imit that a curator was authorized to
pay. "I must get permission of my trustees," she said. "So please
leave it here for a couple of weeks. Then I will give you a
decision." When I saw her again, she made a nasty face, pointed her
pencil to her head, and said, "You know what the trustees said to me?
They said, 'Miss Richter, bring us red marble statues six feet high
that everybody can see. These small things are lost on the museum's
shelves.'" And she continued, "This fellow should know that there
34
Cans: are hundreds of marble statues in every museum. Our museum has
scores of them. But in the whole world there does not exist a second
set of ancient doll jewelry from Greece. I'm sorry, I have to give
them back to you."
The Boser Buben B^LJj Paula's Sudden Fatal Illness
Huth: You mentioned that in the mld-1920's something significant happened
about the same time that you and Paula were invited to a ball that
was a big event in Berl in.
Gans: Yes, In 1925, I opened my new firm, Edward Gans-Bankgeschaf t» as a
small business. Many old customers went with me» which was
considered desirable by the Deutsche Lander bank and its new owner,
who wanted to do business only with my concern. It was an uneventful
year in every respect. But then came the twentieth of February in
1926. We planned to go to a large fashionable public ball, the Boser
Buben Ball (nasty young boys ball), when Paula suddenly said, "I
cannot go. I have too much pain." We had no family doctor. We had
only Professor Hirschfeld, who was a professor at the Berl In
University and a specialist for heart disease. He came, he said,
"It's nothing special. Ifs a heart condition. Take the same
medicine I gave you the last time."
The next morning she felt worse. I ca I led my friend, Dr.
Ferdinand Mainzer, who immediately made the right diagnosis, saying,
"It's a case of appendicitis that has to be operated on at once."
It was a Sunday. No reliable surgeon could be found until late
at night. At one o'clock in the morning, the doctors told me the
surgery was a success, but a perforation had already occurred. Five
days later Paula closed her eyes forever.
it
Paula's Special Philosophy
Gans: That ends what I want to tell about my life with Paula. I want to
quote some of her wonderfully written words but I don't want to be
too personal .
35
Huth: Let's put that in. It sounds Important.
Cans: I will read to you i n German and then i n Engl ish. Let me quote only
a few words from Paula which she wrote in a book by Rudolf Herzog
called Das Lebensl ied. [he reads in German]
Zusammen marchieren,
Zusammen hoffen,
Zusammen ertragen,
urn einrral, wann Oder wie,
Zusammen das gemeinsame gluck
zu ersiegen, das da kommen muss!*
Gans: Translated into English it reads» 'Together march. Together hope.
Together suffer. In order to reach a goal when and where — In order
to reach together the mutual happiness which soneday has to cone."
That is written inside the cover of this book she gave me for
Christmas in 1916, when I was SQ young. That was the life of Paula
and one wonderful word from her. I want to include both of these
versions. That is the true picture of Paula as It still lives In my
heart after al I these years.
.
Huth: How long was your married life?
Gans: Only fourteen years. But it still lives in my memory after fifty-
seven years.
With her passing, I was alone. What to do now? To continue life
as a collector of antiquities was an impossibility, because there was
only one advisor and helper for me, and that was Paula. Again, one
of the miracles of my life happened.
* Zu Weinachten im dritten Kriegsw inter, 1916. [Written at
Christmas, Winter, 1916]
36
Music. An Unusual Friendship with Asva in 1926. and Marriage In 1 95Q
Gans: A customer and a friend was a Professor Zulzer. He Invited me to a
little party* and among the guests was a Professor Kreutzer, a
Russian, who was one of the three pianist-teachers at the Hochschule
fur Musik. After dinner, a little playing of cards was arranged, and
it happened that he became my partner. Previously I mentioned that I
have always had a special interest in music, and so it was natural
that I consider resuming my musical activities again. So I asked Mr.
Kreutzer, "Do you perhaps have a pupil who would be able to accompany
me as I take up music in earnest?"
The next day he cal led to tel I me he had talked to his three
Russian students, Tamara, Vitya, and Asya and told them, "Yesterday I
was at a party. There I met a banker who is looking for a teacher
and an accompany I st. Is one of you interested in this position?"
Naturally all three needed money, and all three raised their hands.
Mr. Kreutzer made a quick decision, saying, "I think you, Asya, are
the right one. I will give you the address and you can write to Mr.
Gans." That was it. Asya Marshack became my accompany ist and, for
the next two years, we had a very formal relationship. Asya came,
and we played all the classical literature together. This lasted two
years, until we got closer and closer together. Up to then, it had
always been "Mr. Gans" and "Miss Marshack." Then it became a true
friendship and four years later in 1930, we married.
In 1926, we made a beautiful trip by car through the whole of
Germany, because I was eager to show her the beauties of this
country, which she, as a student from Russia, naturally did not know.
We visited one city after another, and we had a lot of luck on this
trip. We saw Cosima, the widow of Wagner, in Beirut, at a
performance of Tristan and Isolde. We sat next to Fritz Kreisler,
the famous violinist, in Heidi eburg, at a performance of "A Midsummer
Night's Dream," and we were invited home with him as part of a group
carrying torches. Another day, we were in Kevelaer and there was a
procession, as In the famous poem by Heine, 'The Procession of
Kevelaer." Two years later we were married.
Asya was a wonderful pianist. Unfortunately she had poor
eyesight and, throughout her life she was plagued by other ailments.
She was a beautiful woman and a lively conversationalist. She
entertained well, and when our child arrived, she was also a
wonderful mother. I'll have more to say about that later.
Right: Asya Cans, Edward Cans'
second wife, ca. 1932.
Below left:
Below right:
Lydia Cans, Edward
Cans' daughter, before
her graduation from
Hunter College in New
York, ca. 1946.
Lydia Cans the day of
her graduation with a
Ph.D. in 1978, with
her parents, Edward
and Asya Cans.
37
IV VALUED BERLIN FRIENDSHIPS, AND A PREVIEW OF THE STORY TO COME:
1926 TO 1928
Meaningful Friendships
Cans: It i s of great Importance that I speak about a number of friends
during my life in Berl in. They all played a role during my lifetime
with Paula or with Asya.
I never made friendships with people only for business purposes.
I had a number of close friends and I'll try to describe my
relationships with them. There Is one thing which was a principle —
never to cultivate any friendship for business reasons. With a kind
of pride* I daresay I never invited anybody into my house for
business reasons, not clients, not colleagues, nor members of the
boards of the various companies with which I was affiliated.
Huth: Do you think it would be helpful if we used your scrapbook* that you
showed me the other day?
Gans: That I will do at the end, to see if I have forgotten anything.
* The Edward Gans scrapbook I s to go to his heirs, until they agree
that It should be deposited in The Bancroft Library as part of the
supporting materials accompanying his oral history.
38
Die drei Schwaben
ft
Cans: It Is too difficult to talk about my friends in any kind of order.
Let me first speak of Dr. Ferdinand Mainzer. He was a gynecologist.
I will tell you about him in German first. He was a member of the
three Schwaben. That's a German expression: "Die drei Schwaben."
Schwaben is part of Germany. In English. I believe It's Schwabia.
Maybe you'll find Schwabia in the dictionary. He was born in
Stuttgart, and he was wel I known as one of the three Schwaben — "einer
der drei Schwaben."
Huth: What does Schwaben mean?
Gans: That's what I want to explain. For a reason unknown to me, Schwaben
is a word used for a large piece of land in southern Germany. There
is a well-known German saying, 'The Schwaben are comfortable, cold
but nice and old." And then there is a German story with the title,
"Die drei Schwaben." I don't know the story, but I know that there
is one. And the title of this story is often applied to Mainzer and
two other people who also were my friends. So for this reason, I
don't want to translate it. It is understandable for somebody who is
real ly fam i I iar w Ith Germany, twill just say that he was born i n
Stuttgart, and he was "einer der drei Schwaben," period. He is also
in this scrapbook. [flips through scrapbook] Here he is. I cannot
read what Is printed here.
Huth: It reads, "Dr. Ferdinand Mainzer, the story of his life is best told
by Dr. Frederich Erxleben's article on page txo of this scrapbook."
Gans: Dr. Erxleben does not belong to these "drei Schwaben." But he was a
very famous Catholic clergyman. He was in the German army, and was
the highest clergyman of the whole army. He was in the trenches and
was wounded nineteen times. Imagine that. He was a close friend of
mine.
The three Schwaben were described here. Thafs an article
written by Dr. Erxleben. At one time, Theodore Heuss, one of the
three Schwaben, was a high government official of Germany, comparable
to the position Chancellor Adenauer held. That's why Dr. Erxleben
wrote especially about him.
Dr. Erxleben was a Cathol ic clergyman. We were very close
friends and he honored me and my wife by speaking at her funeral.
And Erxleben wrote this article for the seventieth birthday of
Theodore Heuss. In It, he mentions the friendship of the three
Schwaben. I am also mentioned, because I belonged to his circle of
friends. We played music together. The article ends with a
quotation from Goethe. Here you can see a little poem from Goethe in
Engl Ish.
39
Dr. Ferdinand Mainzer: A Renaissance Man
Gans: Dr. Ferdinand Mainzer was one of the three Schwaben. In Berlin, he
was one of the best known gynecologists* a man of great humor and
probably, from the medical point of view, the leading authority.
When photography became fashionable, he was the first to make
distance photography. For example, he made renowned photographs of
the temple in Paestum In southern Italy, from a great distance. In
connection with it, he wrote a book of little stories about Sicily,
titled "Sici I la." The photograph of the temple in Paestum Is in this
book.
Another Important book by Dr. Mainzer is titled Claudia, a book
that caused a furor in Berlin. It is a book about one of the most
famous Roman girls from one of the leading families in Rome, the
Claudia family. She was nicknamed, "the three-dime whore," meaning
"prostitute."
Alfred Kerr, the famous "malicious" reviewer, wrote a brilliant
review of this book. Then Mainzer became more and more classic and
wrote another book entitled. The Battle For Caesar's Mantle.
Huth: Perhaps we should note that in German Ifs Per Kampf urn Caeser's
£Lbfl.
Gans: Another book by Mainzer, on Tiberius, was written in the Nazi period,
and it was never published.
Chamber Music at the House of Mainzer
Gans: The house of Mainzer was a well known house of music. He had regular
chamber music sessions In his house. The first viol in chairs were
occupied by friends and connections of Karl Flesch, the famous
soloist in Germany. Sometimes Flesch, himself, played the first
violin. The second violin was played by Dr. Mainzer, the viola by
me, and the cello by Otto Mockel. He was probably the leading German
maker of string instruments.
Huth: It was an illustrious group, wasn't it?
Gans: Yes.
Huth: How often did these concerts go on?
Gans: It was sometimes every Sunday, and at other times every month or so.
Huth
40
Huth: Did people cone to hear this?
Cans: Once in a while there were guests. Everything was going on. If I
would tell you about the other things* I could go on and on.
Famous guests were Invited* but I will mention only one* and
this is Professor Robert Zahn, who was the third of the three
Schwaben. He was a director of a museum in Berl in and a leading
world authority on everything classical. Mainzer, himself* could
form a very fine col lection of classical art* including numismatic
collecting, with the help of this friend. Mainzer wrote an article
on the Athenian dekadrachm, which* although published fifty years
ago* is still quoted and of importance.
At one evening concert. Mainzer dropped his bow.
While he was playing the violin?
Gans: Yes. He only said in all quietness* "I know what it means. I am
sorry, this is our last quartet evening." He recognized the
s! ckness.
Huth: What sickness did he have?
Gans: He never named the illness. All he said was, "I know what this
means." I am sorry to say that was our last quartet evening.
Huth: So you didn't ever go back again?
Gans: Never. Socially* we gave quartets. It was our last quartet-playing
even! ng.
Huth: Was he 1 1 I then afterwards?
Gans: He had just one kind of Illness. He could not hold the bow.
Malnzer's Cl inic, the Nazis, and His Later Years
Gans: Mainzer had his own private clinic, together w i th a colleague by the
name of Dr. Hollander. Hence the nickname — "cheese clinic."
Huth: Cheese clinic?
Gans: Yes. Because of Hollander cheese and Mainzer cheese.
Huth: [laughs] Was Dr. Hollander a friend of yours?
41
>
Cans: Not Dr. Hollander wasn't Important. What did I say?
Huth: We just talked about Dr. Mainzer not being able to hold a bow and
then you said he had his own clinic. You also mentioned his interest
In coins. Did he help you with your coin collecting?
Cans: No. When the Nazis came, there were difficulties with the clinic.
Huth: What year would this be?
if
Cans: I don't want to say the year because I don't know this part very
well, I'll just say, when the Nazis came, there were difficulties
with the cl inic and when Mainzer gave up the viol In, he concentrated
on translating Hesiod from Greek into German. Later, he had to leave
Germany, but he was so wel I- known at the American embassy that he
got an honorary visa to come to this country. He arrived in the
United States in 1938. He did not fail to visit with me In New York
before he continued to Cal Ifornia, where other relatives I Ived and
where he closed his I ife,
Huth: Were there other friends in Berl in that you want to move on to?
Gans: Yes.
More on Dr. Lederer and Coin Collecting
Gans: In connection with Mainzer I will mention Dr. Philipp Lederer. I
spoke of him earlier, when I talked about my life with Paula. He
helped us with our jewelry collecting and he was a numismatist. He
dealt not only in coins but he was also an authority in archeology.
Huth: The two fields go very well together, don't they?
Gans: Yes. Coins were a specialty. I have already described his apartment
on the Kupf ergraben, located opposite the Berl In coin museum, where
he spent most of his time.
After Paula's death, jewelry of all kinds was out. That was
Paula's domain. But coins were a different story, and now I started
the serious collection of Roman coins. I was not ripe yet for Greek
coin collecting, because I had never learned Greek.
42
Huth: Did you have a knowledge of a language that helped you with the Roman
coi ns?
Gans: Yes. They were written in Latin, a language familiar to me. My
friendship with Dr. Lederer became ever more Intime in the year after
Paula's death. We made a trip together to Scandinavia, and later the
friendship with his sister and niece continued here in America.
Friendshio with Cleravman Frederich Erxleben
Gans: I would like to mention Professor Doctor Frederich Erxleben. He was
often an intimate guest at the Mainzer household. He was gracious
enough to extend his friendship to me, He joined me occasionally for
dinner and, when I asked him to say a few words at Paula's cremation,
he was forced to refuse because the Catholic faith prohibits
attendance at such an event. 'But," he continued, "I will telephone
the cardinal in Munich. Perhaps he will find a way for me to
attend." He was able to come and speak a few warm words but not as a
representative of the Cathol ic faith. Later, he was pursued by the
Nazis and tortured. After having been promised that he would be made
a bishop, he finally ended his life, his health completely destroyed,
as a modest priest in a small village in the Mosel area of the Rhine
country he loved so much.
Museum Director. Professor Robert Zahn
Gans: Now I will talk about Professor Robert Zahn.
Huth: Was he the third of the "drei Schwaben?"
Gans: Yes. The third of the Schwaben.
[Interview 16: July 18, 1984]##
Huth: As we begin with your recollections of Robert Zahn, what do you
remember about him?
Gans: Once Professor Robert Zahn was a guest for dinner in our house, and
we spoke about leaving our Egyptian jewelry collection at the museum,
under his supervision. I wanted to make a gift of one piece to the
43
Gans: Berlin antiquar! urn museum and my name appeared as a donor in the
official publication for the year 1926, or 1927. I was surprised
that he chose something very modest appearing. It was a tiny little
bronze figure. I do not remember whether it was a representation of
a god or goddess. Robert Zahn described it in one of his
publications. It was a piece done In a mold* over which gold leaf
was hammered for a result like these earrings, [refers to a
photograph of his Egyptian earrings].
Huth: For an object, would that be like these earrings?
Gans: Yes. Wonderful.
Huth: Then could we say that these are the earrings?
Gans: No» no, no! Now sixty years later, I cannot say whether it was like
these earrings proper, or any other figure, or a few other pairs of
earrings in other museums. But for Professor Zahn, it was very
Interesting and important, because it illustrated the type of
workmanship. [Mr. Gans asked the interviewer to help him check the
dates and names of directors of the Berl in museum, from Zahn's
directorship up to now. "Greifenhagen II" — In the description of Mr.
Gans1 jewelry refers to the name of the man who was once here at
Gans1 home. He may have been the successor of Robert Zahn at the
Berl in museum. ]*
I heard that this Berl In museum was very smart in hiding al I
their precious things when World War II broke out.
Huth: What did they do with these valuable things when it broke — ?
Gans: They hid all the precious things in the museum that could be hidden.
They buried them somewhere. When the war ended, and the treasures
could be excavated again, it turned out that the museums proper were
in East Berl in. In the Russian zone. But, fortunately, the artworks
were buried in the western zone. I myself saw treasures from the
first Gans collection In this museum.
Huth: The Berliner Museum.
Gans: And now I look back to the past. What I want you to do Is to get
information on this museum, in Charl ottenburg, Ca section of Berlin]
once cal led the Berl iner Museum. What is it cal led now? Is it
located now In Char I ottenburg near the Castle Charl ottenburg? [they
look at pictures in Gans' scrapbook.]
*The interviewer, through research in Doe Library, University of
California at Berkeley, was able to confirm that Dr. Greifenhagen
succeeded Robert Zahn as director of the museum.
44
Huth: Here are three men in a photograph. Below a note states that one man
Is Dr. Grei f enhagen.
Cans: I took that picture without thinking anything about the future, when
I was in Berlin In 1961. That was over twenty-one years ago. Okay»
now comes the story of Dr. Grei f enhagen. Grei f enhagen was here in
Berkeley with a health problem. But in my black scrapbook I have a
postcard from Greifenhagen in which he thanks me profusely for a
second gift I made to his museum. So, In other words* that is a
postcard very profusely written — noting that this gift was
important — for the museum and so on. So I gave the first gift when I
was the youngest of glvers» in 1927. and then as the oldest giver, in
1966, or whenever the card was written. On his visit here, Dr.
Greifenhagen expressed the request that if I should ever sell the
small gold earrings, I should offer them to his museum.
ft
Another Close Friend, Kurt Kruaer
Gans: I must now come to an entirely different category of friends from
those I have mentioned already. That is Kurt Kruger. I said above I
met him on our first trip to Breslau, where we decided not to buy the
bank in Silesia. But he was so efficient that I insisted on bringing
him to our bank as head of the legal department.
Huth: What was the name of your bank at this time?
Gans: It's always the same bank under two names at two different times.
Originally, it was the Koloni al bank* and after 1920 the Deutsche
Landerbank, when Kurt Kruger was there. In the Nazi era* Kurt
Kruger, being Gentile, was able to continue as an employee when the
bank was taken over by the I. G. FarbenI ndustrie. Eventually he
obtained the second highest rank at this institution in its legal
department. He was a brilliant legal authority, but would never sell
his character for personal advantage.
Later, he was called to Washington to be a witness for the
United States In its lawsuit against the I. G. Farbenindustri e. He
was a witness for the American government. At that time, we were
I Ivlng In New York, and I had an opportunity to see him for the
last time. I gratefully acknowledge his help with my emigration.
Huth: He helped you leave Germany?
Gans: Yes. He bought things which I had and arranged for the sale of my
house. I gratefully acknowledge his help In many ways.
45
Huth: Is he st! I I I iving?
Cans: No, he died two or ttiree years ago. He had one weak spot* and that
was the ladies, [laughter] I believe he would have occupied a high
post in the German government if that had not been the case. Perhaps
he did become a Nazi in the last days, but that was only in a formal
way. I know for sure that on the first of May he always traveled to
Vienna or Budapest in order to avoid being present at the Nazi
festiv ities in Berl in.
Violin Maker. Otto Mockel
Cans: Another close Berlin friend was Otto Mockel, a cellist. It would be
ungrateful if I omitted the violin maker Otto Mockel. He built a
violin for me and inscribed It, 'Built by Otto Mockel, Berlin, after
the model of Giuseppe Guarnerius del Gesu, con amore. for Edward
Cans." Later, when he died, the Berl in newspaper announced his death
by noting: ''Germany's Stradivari us died," and at his funeral they
played on instruments made by Otto Mockel.
When I left Germany, I paid a good-bye visit to his daughter,
who asked me to consider buying an Antonius and Hieronymus Amati
three-quarter sized violin, which her father wanted me to have. So I
bought i t.
Huth: Were Antonius and Hieronymus Amati famous viol in makers?
Cans: Yes. Antonius and Hieronymus Amati were said to be the first real
violin makers. That was around 1600. I bought it for its numismatic
value. No artist plays a three-quarter violin, because it's too
small. It's only for a child prodigy, who can play it in their first
few years when very smal I.
I m oor tance of Friendships
Gans: I have had many, and currently have, a great number of friends. Most
are Jews, and there are a few Gentiles.
Huth: Would you have some general comment to make about the influence of
your friends on your I ife, and what they meant to you?
46
Cans: I have always taken the word friendship very seriously. In fact, I
had only one close friend as a school friend» with whom the
connections for a variety of reasons did not continue. He also came
to America at a very late date. I visited him in a hospital in the
state of New York, where he died soon thereafter.
When I visited Germany again in 1961 — it was the day before the
Berlin wall was erected — I visited the cemeteries in Berlin and also
in Hamburg. There, on grave markers, I found scores of names of
persons who were close to me, but I did not find any living friends.
Huth: In 1961 you were in your seventies?
Gans: Yes. In this connection, I can add that I now have only one real
American friend. There are a few others in this country that I will
mention later.
LookJ no Ahead to Future Interviews
Gans: In future interviews, I will discuss the activ iti es of a banker from
1930 to 1934, and our emigration to the United States. I want to have
it in my mind.
Huth: Also, at a later time, we should talk some more about your second
wife.
Gans: Oh yes, that comes. I will begin with my life in 1930, because
businesswi se, as a stockbroker from 1926 to 1930, this time period
was absolutely unimportant. There is nothing to say. My activity
went down, down, down, bus! nessw i se. But in banking circles, I
became important in Germany. The Reichbank — that is like the federal
reserve here — gave me the right to sign my name together with the
others required. My signature was the third needed for the Reichbank
to finance the government's operations. That's the only German pride
I had.
The Depression was in Germany also, and in Germany there was a
general scarcity of money. The Reichbank created more money and had
only one agent. They wanted someone with financial assets to be the
second agent. There were not many who were not broke, but I was not
broke, and consequently I was named. And when it was necessary to
leave banking, and I told the director of the Reichbank, 'Today I
sold my business," he said, 'How can you take the liberty to sell
your business? You are our agent," I could only answer him, "I
prefer to maintain my friendships and lose my business."
47
Gans: This was a turning point in my life. It was the close of my German
activities. We made several attempts at a second I ife during
emigration that failed. During one period in Israel* I attemped to
found a Jewish musical publishing house with the help of the Max
Warburgs.* Then my brother-in-law in the United States said, "Come
to America. I give you my word you will find something." Nothing
worked out for a year. And then came my emigration to the United
States. That was the beginning of my second I ife.
We arrived in 1938, and I started the coin business in 1939.
The year 1938 to 1939 was a catastrophe, financially. I was a
banker, and my means of survival as a banker is money — but I had no
money. I came here with three thousand dollars. My house and
everything in Berlin was taken over by the Nazis. My wife and I gave
violin and piano lessons. That first year here, I was the
representative for a f i rm in West Virginia, and my product was a
coffee machine. That was difficult. I am not a salesman. I am a
buyer. The ability to buy — that's my product. And I couldn't sell.
People want salesmen who can talk others into buying, but I am not
suited for that.
»
You have to go. I am so happy that I am in good humor again.
Please keep me in your thoughts; it's so wonderful to talk with you.
And help me decide how I should talk about my life. I do not know
how I will do it.
Huth: I think we're doing very well.
Gans: But my biggest problem is with my eyes; I cannot read. I will not be
able to read what I have written.
A Look at the Storv of Numismatic Fine Arts
Gans: Then comes the most important part of this history. Do you have five
minutes?
Huth: Yes.
Gans: I will tell you. I founded Numismatic Fine Arts in 1939. I gave up
my coin business slowly, slowly. I always worked together with the
University of California at Berkeley or UCLA. There came a fellow
who I thought could be my successor, but I found out in time that he
*Max Warburg, Hamburg banker, discussed on page 57 of this oral
history.
48
Gans: was a cheat and a crook. Behind my back he sold my business name,
"Numismatic Fine Arts," to someone else. Today the buyers of my name
are the biggest people In the business in this country. A
representative of that business will visit with me next week, If he
keeps his word. If they agree that they are really continuing my
business, Numismatic Fine Arts, they will celebrate their fiftieth
anniversary in 1989. Then it is as If It continued In one line, that
Numismatic Fine Arts goes on, and that I am a silent partner in the
new firm since 1970, including the last ten years, when I devoted my
time and resources to the work associated with the gift of my
collection of seals to the University of California here. That would
be wonderful. By becoming a coin firm that has existed for fifty
years, they are bigshots. So I think that he w 1 1 1 say "Yes." If he
agrees, we will have to write an entirely new chapter, to include my
last few years of work as if it were connected with Numismatic Fine
Arts.
If he says, 'No, " we will have no interest in any continuing
firm. Then I will say, "I give up. Thankyou." That Is the
question that will be decided by representatives of that firm. Here
Is the Summa Gallery catalog based on their numismatic contracts.
They have contracted to sell my collection. Here are photographs of
my jewelry and an accompanying story about It.* Have you read the
story about the jewelry?
Huth : Yes, I have a copy and I read the story about the jewelry. I also
looked at the photographs of these beautiful things. They're
gorgeous.
Gans: That's a million dollars' worth.
Huth: I would think it must be extremely valuable.
Gans: That's my idea. Now comes the follow up with what I am establ ishing
In California. Here in California I sold the coin collection of the
Grand Duke George Michael ov itch of Russia, first cousin of the
Emperor Alexander III. This was eventually purchased by the Duponts
and was given to the Smithsonian Institution. That1 s what I have
done. So it is an absolutely normal course for a numismatic firm.
*'The Edward Gans Collection of Ancient Jewelry, No. 111-No. 140," in
the Summa Gal leries, Inc., Auction I sales catalog (Beverly Hills,
California) September 18, 1981. The catalog is deposited In The
Bancroft Library as part of the supporting materials accompanying
this oral history.
49
Sane Thoughts on This History and Life's Miracles
Gans: Naturally, as to my physical condition — I am all and all a healthy
man» but I have difficulty with hearing. Soon, in further
treatments, I will see whether my vision will be restored or not.
And if not, I do not know how I can view the edited versions and
proofs and all of these things. But it has to be done.
Huth: We' I I find a way.
Gans: And for that reason, I must appeal to you for your help, not only
with your mind, but if you allow me, I appeal to your heart that you
feel what I mean. I don't care whether you spell Jesu with a 'G1,
but I appeal to you for assistance with what I should say. I was
never a very rel igious man — you can bel ieve me. But the diversity
and how my life was dictated by miracles is amazing. Wasn't it a
miracle that Kreutzer sent Asya? I think that's a miracle. And
forty-nine years we were married. She was the best comrade that I
could have had. Now this oral history is a very interesting event in
my life. I remember that everything was a miracle. I can tell you
all of the stories about the important events — how close everything
was to being a miracle. And believe me, I have no idea about what Is
in the many oral history books that you publ ished.
Huth: Well, there are many volumes. I don't really know how many, I have
heard there are over five hundred.
Gans: It is very interesting, because everything was a miracle. Why should
my brother cal I me to Berl in? That a Hamburg boy became a Berl iner,
that is a miracle. And it is miraculous to me that Paula and I were
on the same train, because we both wanted to see our mothers at
Easter. I should have written much more about our visits to all the
theaters, and all the many things we did.
Huth: We did talk about how you got many tickets to the opera.
Gans: But have I told you that we saw al I the Shakespeare plays, all the
Schiller plays. And I couldn't always participate, when, after these
events, in the next day or so, the persons who played this or that
role came to the Glenk Shop and talked to my wife about related
topics. It was one hundred percent true. That was her life; that
was my I if e, And then when she stopped, I stopped. I bought a
castle that saved my life. Frederic the Great built this castle for
a famous general in the year 1776, and I bought it, but I lost it in e
lawsuit. There was a swindle made in the way the transfer was made
from one party to the other. It was eight acres of land in the city
of Berlin. And it saved my life! Otherwise, if I had still owned
it — would you think anybody would leave such a property?
50
Gans: As to my hearing problems* as soon as you say a whole sentence* and I
miss one word* the whole contact Is lost. That's one problem. When
we talk alone here* I can understand you absolutely. When you speak
with me now* I can fol low you. But as soon as a car goes by or
someone comes In — It changes. It Is very, very difficult for me to
read a proof. But otherwise* I am the best proofreader In the world.
But a proofreader, not a hearer. And now In addition, I have this
eye trouble. It's too long a story.
This Is a set of books* four volumes* written by Natasha
Borovsky. She lives on Acacia Street here In Berkeley. She asked me
to read her proofs* and I read these six volumes of proofs. I found
everything other readers missed. Proofreader, yes* but with this
problem with my eyes I don't see how we can manage. That will be a
big problem. I can't read and I cannot follow what we will write
together.
Huth : We will work around that.
51
>
V ENTRY INTO NUMISMATICS, PARTIAL LIQUIDATION OF ART TREASURES,
AND STORIES ABOUT RAREST OBJECTS: 1926 TO 1928
[Interview 3: October 3, 1983]#|
Huth: We are ready to begin our discussion of your early coin collecting,
your continuing Interest In small classical art pieces, and the
Impact of the Depression and the Nazis on your life and work.
Moving From Classical Art Collecting to Numismatics;
Dr. Lederer's Influence
Gans: It became clear to me that my collector's life had ended. But only
In a limited way. For me, Paula was the only authority, and I did
not want to add anything that was not approved by her. But there was
one exception. There was our friend, Dr. Phlllpp Lederer, who was a
numismatist, and this Is a science In Itself. He visited
universities In Germany and Italy, got his doctorate, and was
recognized as an authority all over the world. But In addition, he
was an honest man. When he had any doubt about the quality of a
piece, he had It authenticated by the German authorities. This was
no problem, because their material and numismatic literature was
located across the street from his home, In the state coin museum.
So I decided to start collecting coins, covering more or less
the period that my classical art collection represented. It became
fascinating for me, while, when looking at the jewelry, I felt
oppressed.
Paula always used to say, "Artworks have to wander." I gave
away one little bronze figure to a museum, a piece our friend,
Professor Robert Zahn, wanted to own. This piece will play a certain
role In something I will discuss later. It was given to the Berlin
Museum. With this one exception, I put the whole collection on
auction at the leading Berlin house, the firm of Paul Casslrer and
Hugo Helblng.
52
Auction of Antiquities Objects Collection in 1928
Gans: The auction took place in December, 1928. I had made an agreement
with the auction house that I would have the right to buy back any
items I wanted to keep, as usual ly happens between auctioneer and
seller. In retrospect, I believe there was a premonition. Almost
everything I treasured, that is, objects made of ceramic, wood, etc.,
I let go. But when any object was made either in part or completely
of gold, I bought it back. There were, altogether, one hundred
twenty-five pieces, and after the sale I still owned seventy-five. I
did not know these objects would keep me and the family alive many
decades later.
Huth: Otherwise, you might have kept everything?
Gans: Yes.
Soaring Values of Rare Gold Objects; Discovering the Usefulness
of One Piece
Gans: Here is a I i st of some of the gold pieces. In 1978, some were sold.
You see, here I sold fifty pieces for twelve thousand dollars, and
here is one piece left thafs worth a million dollars — that piece is
the one I said Robert Zahn wanted.
One of the pieces I bought back was described in the Summa
Gallery catalog as the "Griff el form! ger Kettenanhanger." When I
showed this object to Miss Gisela Richter of the Metropol itan Museum
of Art, she said, "That is not an Anhanger [pendant]; it is a
cosmetic tool, the rounded end of which was used to rub Koh I into the
eyebrow."
Huth: Was she right? Was that what it was?
Gans: That is my story to come. Some years later, I met a German professor
who looked at It, and he said, "I do not believe it is a cosmetic
tool or pendant. You see, its other end is crushed. It was used as
a stylus, a writing Instrument."
Now, I had three descriptions of an unusual object, and I became
really curious to know what was really right. There was my friend
Josef Ternbach, in New York, who was acknowledged to be the best art
restorer in the country, and an old friend of mine. I told him,
"Look here, the other end is crushed. Can you bring it into Its
>
53
Cans: original shape?" This was a bagatel le [simple] job for him. He sent
it back after a few days> and wrote to me that it*s neither a
pendant nor an eyebrow pencil, nor a stylus. He decided it is an
applicator. He wrote* 'The golden part, which I have now opened, is
hollow and is about ten centimeters long. It could have been filled
with some precious perfume applied by an Egyptian beauty." There is
no question in my mind, nor in the minds of others I showed it to,
that now we had the right solution.
ft
And with it, I come back to my old professor friend, who had
acquired this applicator and the doll jewelry, perhaps a hundred
years ago in Egypt. There is no question in my mind that only the
pharaoh, or another high personage at the court could have the
intelligence and means to order costly jewelry for a doll. And for
me there is no question that a princess had ordered the golden
applicator. The few applicators known to exist are of base metal. I
considered it to be a good possibility that the luxury loving
Cleopatra had once been the real owner. Nice story?
Huth: Very nice. I I i ke that.
Other Unusual PI eces in the Go I d Jewel rv Col I action
Cans: Another discovery I made concerned an "ordinary" necklace with a
yellowish colored glass bead. Under a magnifying glass I discovered
a crack in the glass, and underneath was a gold bead. So we had here
a gold bead covered with glass. This is something that is known now
but had not been known for some two thousand years.
On another necklace was a small gold bead covered with
granulated gold beads of really unbelievable small ness, that could
not be imitated nowadays, and which was fabricated originally by the
Etruscans in the fifth century, B.C.
I will mention one other story. There is a type of fibula
cal led a crossbow fibula, which was usual ly made during the period of
the wandering of the people. We got it from our friend. Professor
F. R. Martin, and I still preserve a piece of a note from Paula where
she writes, "Found on the I sol a San Bartholomeo." I had never heard
of the I sol a Bartholomeo before. I somehow thought it was a very
small island in one of the northern Italian lakes. When I met my old
54
Cans: friend Ernest Nash in Rome, he told me that I was mistaken. In Rome,
in the Tiber River, there is a tiny island called Isola Tiberna,
which is sometimes called I so I a Barthol omeo. On this island there
existed a temple dedicated to Aesculap, the god of heal ing, and holy
to Aesculap Is the serpent. When, at a time of the migration of the
people, the temples of the heathen gods were destroyed, they were
replaced by a church structure dedicated to a saint. Saint
Barthol omeo. The ruins of both temple and church are still preserved
on the island, and you can see that the same serpent that is on my
f ibul a is al so In an i I I ustration in this book depicting the tempi e,
the bow of a ship with a bull's head and the snake of Aesculap. The
holy serpent that adorns my fibula adorns a part of a ship, as
illustrated in Ernest Nash's Pictorial Dictionary of Ancient Rome»
v.1, p. 509, pi. 627 (publ ished by Frederich A. Praeger, N.Y.).
Huth: Your friend Ernest Nash compiled this, [looking at the book by Nash]
Cans: Yes.
Huth: Ifs plate number 627 In this book publ ished by Praeger in New York,
in 1961.
Gans: The German government considered this work so important that the
German text was translated into English and Italian, and all costs
were paid by the government.
For me, the best in every respect is the only thing I want — with
human beings, with art. Not with eating — I can eat hamburgers, but
they must be the best hamburgers, [laughter]
We can speak about coins much later when we come to America.
That is the most important story, that comes at a later time. Paula
was art, and with her cremation that was done; now comes Asya.
55
VI LIFE WITH ASYA, THE REICHSBANK CONNECTION, THE NAZIS, AND
EMIGRATION TO THE UNITED STATES: 1929 TO 1938
Huth: You've told me how you met and married Asya. The last time we talked
about your friends In Germany, and how they affected your life.
Today we will get Into more about your life with Asya.
Gans: My life with Asya started and ended with music. BusI nessw Ise,
everybody still remembers the Crash In 1929*, which was followed by
hard times In Europe In the fol low Ing years. My tiny banking firm
suffered like the big banking firms, but only In a tiny way. This
was my good I uck.
Important Affiliation with the Deutsche Retchsbank In the Nazi Era
it
Gans: My only great pride during all my banking career, next to the
purchase of the building on Unter den Linden, was that sometime In
1931 the Deutsche Relchsbank publ I shed a notice that one more dealer
with Prlvatdlskonten (prime bank acceptances) was required. (The
Relchsbank was the equivalent of the Federal Reserve Bank In
America.) I submitted my application, and It was the only one that
was accepted. In practice, It meant that when one large bank
borrowed a certain amount from another bank, the Relchsbank demanded
a third signature In order to provide the requested money. It meant
In practice that my signature was considered equal to those of the
large banks. It gave me considerable prestige among large Insurance
companies, and for me, any transaction connected with speculation
ceased to exist. From a financial point of view, the few years until
the advent of Hitler were the best of my life.
*Crash In 1929— bank failures at the start of the Depression.
56
Gans: Asya very quickly recognized the establishment of the Nazi regime,
since she had learned much from her Russian experience. She advised
me, "Let's live modestly somewhere else, but not among the Jew-
beaters." I asked my friend Kurt Kruger, who meanwhile had a high
position at the I. G. Farbeni ndustri e, what he thought we should do.
He replied, "I mean it to go well with you. Leave Germany, and I
will help you whereever and however I can." It was good advice,
and I fol lowed It.
To find a buyer for my banking firm was an easy affair, and I
still remember how I informed the Reichsbank of my decision. On that
particular day, I left the stock exchange building with Director
Hoppe of the Reichsbank. I told him that I had sold my business as
of April 1, 1935. He grabbed me by the shoulder and in an angry tone
demanded, 'How could you do that without my permission?" I simply
replied, "I prefer to lose my business and remain a good friend of
yours. And that was it.
More on the Trip to Israel; Decision to Emigrate to New York.
1955 and 1936
Gans: Our first try was Israel. In 1935 we went to Israel, where Asya's
brother and wife, both doctors, had lived since 1932. Soon after our
arrival in Tel Aviv, while standing in front of a hotel, two cabs
arrived with their interiors covered with blood. We were told that
the Arabs had attacked a group of cabs and killed a few people. Asya
cried out immediately, "We don't go to a country where such things
happen. I want to keep my child al ive," (In April, 1931, our only
chi Id had been born.)
Huth: A boy or a gi rl ?
Gans: A girl. Our only daughter.
Deciding Not to Found a Jewish Music Publ ishlng House
Gans: Naturally, because of our interest In music, most of the people we
met in Israel were musicians. Al I of a sudden the idea was born to
found a Jewish musical publishing house, an idea that pleased
everybody. There was enough classical music and still more classical
musicians all over the world. I traveled for many weeks, to Paris
Edward Cans ' s bank, the Deutsche Landerbank, Unter den Linden 78, Berlin.
Erected in 1920. Drawing by Wilhelm Wagner, Berlin, 1932.
The music room in Edward Cans' home from 1919 to 1937, in the
Charlottenburg section of Berlin, ca. 1925.
57
Gans: and London* to establish connections* which was an easy matter. But
I had to establ ish as wel I connections with money» and that was not
so easy. I discussed the matter w i th a banker. Max Warburg, in
Hamburg, who considered it important to first settle a number of
legal questions. And in this respect he helped me with good advice.
But when it came to money, he said, "With German money this can never
be done. I will give you an introduction to my brother, Paul, In New
York, and to my nephew, who is very much interested in music," With
this connection established, Asya and I traveled for a one-month
visit to Am er i ca.
Huth: What year was that?
Gans: In 1936. Rabbi Wise of New York, and other Jewish clergy and
musicians were very interested in the publishing house Idea. Our
introductory letter from the Warburgs was del ivered the first day.
But we did not get a reply and invitation, which we eagerly awaited.
It came the last day of our visa. Naturally we could not accept at
that late date, and we had to leave without getting started with our
real project. But we had success in deciding on our future with the
words of a very close relative, Paula's brother, who was also a
brother-in-law who was close tome. He said, "I will give you my
affidavit. I will help you as best I can, but New York is the center
of the world, and you will certainly find a new life here." So we
decided to come to America.
Final Weeks in Germany: Late 1936 and 1937
Gans: The last month of 1936 and the year 1937 were used for liquidations
of property in Germany, and preparations for America.
I will mention here only the hel p which the Rei chsbank gave
me in depositing an important part of my collection in London.
Huth: Only the coin collection — you didn't deposit the jewelry in London?
Gans: Other valuable objects were already deposited in earlier years, but
permits were not required then.
Huth: Were those deposited in London, too?
Gans: All over. Moneywise, I had no problems.
58
Gans: Two things I will tell. I only want to mention a funny thing.
(In the book I gave you. you will find many things that I will not
discuss in these interviews.*) In the very last days of my stay in
Germany, I got a visit from a friend who wanted to say good-bye, and
who by chance brought an American friend who was a dentist, a Dr.
Sexton. When Dr. Sexton heard that I had a collection of jewelry
that had come from Dr. Lederer, it did not interest him at all. But
when I mentioned that Lederer had told me that many of the objects
came from a Mr. Mavrogordato, he was wild. "That man was a good
friend of my parents, and I have to see these things I" he said. I
told him, "I am sorry that is not possible now, but I am sure you
will al so go back to Ameri ca and that you will visi t me over there. "
In the last days of December, 1937, I went to Copenhagen and to
London to collect deposited artifacts. Asya went with our daughter
to Scheven ingen, a resort town near The Hague, [Holland] where we met
at the house of our friend, Pel ix Tikotin, on the thirtieth of
December, 1937. Tikotin was an old, good friend of mine. He was the
major dealer in Japanese art I discussed earlier, and as I said, had
no interest in China. With me it was just the opposite, so we could
always stay good friends. His wife was pregnant, and they had asked
Asya to buy w indeln [diapers] and other things for a baby, expected
in a few months. At the end of the year, there was a big festivity
at hi s house, whi ch he cal led Unter den W in del n. It was a pi ay on
words: instead of Unter den Linden, Unter den Windeln [under the
diapers]. We danced nicht under den Linden; we danced under den
Windeln. The next day we went to Paris, and then we came to America.
[Interview 4: October 10, 1983]##
Huth : Mr. Gans, tell me a little more about your daughter. Then perhaps we
could include a discussion of your last visit with your brother, and
your emigration to New York City, where you began a new life as a
numi smati st.
' Edward Gans, What I Remember, photocopied transcription of lifetime
recollections, undated, with red hardcover, 98 pages. Part of the
materials accompanying this oral history deposited in The Bancroft
Li brary.
59
Concern and Preparation for Border Cross! no
Cans: Now I will tell you about our daughter Lydia, who was born in 1931.
I'll begin with when she was six years old. It was for her and for
my wife and me» the first time that we all had crossed the German
border to enter another country. My wife instructed our daughter
that when border officials from the Nazi government entered the
railway car. she should not make any remark which could become
suspicious. Our daughter behaved wonderfully. She followed the
instructions of her mother, who had bribed her with the promise of a
piece of candy in America for every time she kept quiet In the
presence of an official.
Journey to Paris to Visit a Special Brother
Cans: Now came the next crossing of a border to France. This was the last
crossing out of the old country. We arrived in Paris on the first of
January, 1938. It was to be a farewell, not only from Europe, but
also upon leaving my brother and his family.
This brother was the closest to me of all my family. He had
lived in Paris since 1898, and we had visited each other frequently.
During the Nazi era, he was allowed to take a number of valuable
pieces from my collections to Paris. I had deposited my musical
instruments — my violins and certain jewels with him. All of these
things I picked up now. These were the only valuable possessions
that I was able to take to the new country, since all other
property — real estate, stock shares, money — had been retained or
confiscated by the Nazis.
The farewel I from my brother was a very quiet one. We looked
into each other's eyes, knowing that we would probably never see each
other again. And so it happened, because he died shortly thereafter,
in October, 1938.
Huth: What was this brother's name?
Gans: Robert. He died in 1938 in his sixty-third year.
60
Arrival in New York City in January 1958
Cans: After a quiet voyage, we arrived in New York on the tenth of January,
1938, a memorable date for us. We got a pleasant impression
immediately upon our arrival at the customs house. When the customs
official saw my four violins, etc., he got the impression that they
were being brought in in place of a money transfer. But then I
played for him at the customs house, and he bel ieved that I was a
musician and not a dealer, [laughter]
We had a relative in New York. He was a step-brother of my late
wife, Paula, and he proved to be helpful in every respect. He lived
on Staten Island, and, after we stayed with him a few days, we found
a very modest, small but comfortable apartment of two and a half
rooms.
Huth : Do you remember his name?
Gans: Waldemar Mul ler. He was Norwegian. He had three children, a boy and
two girls, the youngest one being about the same age as our daughter.
61
VII NEW LIFE AND CAREER AS A NUMISMATIST IN NEW YORK CITY: 1938 TO
1942
Getting Started with the Help of Friends
Cans: We soon made a few friends. There was a doctor from Frankfurt who
had arrived a year earlier who proved to be a friend to all Incoming
Immigrants. I also remember his friend* a dentist* whose daughter
had just married an American teacher. They became our closest
friends. And after an Interruption of more than a few years* we met
them again — about thirty years later, In Berkeley, together with
their famous son, Stevan Schroeder, who has become one of the most
famous medical authorities In this country.
The German authorities had al lowed us to take a few thousand
dollars with us (If I remember correctly, the sum was three thousand
dollars.) So It was Important to earn money for our dally living.
Huth: How old were you at that time?
Gans: I will mention that later. It was no problem for my wife, who was a
professional pianist. I* as a dilettante, found by chance one or two
students of the violin. But this latter was, of course, no
profession.
What could I do? The merchandise of a banker Is money, and
money I didn't have. By nature I am a good buyer, but a very, very,
very poor salesman. Office jobs were practically unavailable at
this time of the Depression, and my few attempts as a salesman of
Insurance and similar endeavors failed.
62
Miraculous Meeting with Coin Dealer, Mr. Metal
Gans: The good spirits of my wife kept me upright at a time when it seemed
likely that only a miracle could help. This miracle happened* and it
was the strangest thing, practically unbelievable but true. One nice
day* I got a telephone cal I from the dentist* Dr. Sexton* who had
visited us in Berlin a few days before our departure. He reminded me
that I had promised to show him the classical jewelry, part of which
had once been the property of Mr. Mavrogordato.
Gans: I remembered his previous visit, of course* and I was pleased to meet
him again. We made an appointment for the next Sunday at three
o'clock. The Sunday came* three o'clock came* but no guest. It was
four o'clock, and then it was five o'clock. At five-thirty the
doorbell rang. A stranger was standing at the door. He Introduced
himself* saying* "My name is Julio Metal. I have had a toothache all
day. I am a patient of Dr. Sexton, and I don't want to be
incapacitated In case the toothache should come back. Please accept
me as your guest also." Which of course I did. Dr. Sexton arrived
later.
It became a very pleasant afternoon and evening. Both guests
admired my jewelry, and Mr. Metal told us about his activities as a
real estate broker in the heart of New York City. Then I mentioned,
just by chance, my violins and my coins, and when Mr. Metal heard the
word "coins", he was absolutely ecstatic.
"You have coi ns al so!" he cri ed out. "I a I so have coi ns. I
have sixty kilo of gold coins in Spain* ten kilo of gold coins in
Berlin, and five kilo of gold coins in Vienna. For several years I
was the agent of the Bank of Spain, and I am sure I bought some three
hundred million dollars worth of gold coins for that bank."
Then the discussion continued about coins, but In my mind* all
of these stories seemed a little mysterious* since I had never heard
anyone speak of gold coins in terns of kilograms. Before the guests
left, Mr. Metal urged me, "Let us do something together with our
coins. There Is certainly some possibility available. Visit me at
my office on Columbus Circle. You will always find me there."
63
Cans: At that time* I had ajob» if it could be called a job. I was not
paid in money, but I got paid with a coffee machine. I still
remember, when I walked in all despair along the sidewalk next to
Central Park on Central Park South. I saw the round building on
Columbus Circle, where the strange Mr. Metal had his office, and I
thought a visit couldn't do any damage.
I entered the building. Then I saw on the directory that a Mr.
Metal had not one or two rooms, but eight or ten rooms, with several
firms. When I entered his office, he rather joyfully greeted me
with the words, "You come at the right moment. Here you see the
declaration from customs. My coins have arrived from Germany. They
will allow me to import them all, except for a one-dollar gold coin.
I have here another letter from my son in London, who wants me to
find a job for him. Wouldn't it be a nice idea to put our coins
together? My son could join you as a partner in a new coin firm.
You can have this empty room next-door to me, and you don't need to
pay any rent for it. I will also give you five thousand dollars so
that you have money for the start-up."
Huth: Most mi raculous !
Gans: Yes.
Beainnina Business as a Numismatist in 1959 — At Aoe Fifty-Two
Gans: I didn't need much thinking. Now, here in America, in a minute, the
decision was made to make a profession out of a hobby that I had
enjoyed for several decades in Germany.
In the year 1939 — it was my fifty-second year of life — I became
a coin dealer. Or to use a more favored word, I became a
numismatist. The trade in classical coins, in use especially up to
the Middle Ages and a little beyond that, is done by serious
scientists who call themselves numismatists.
A New Partnership: Numismatic Fine Arts
Gans: Mr. Metal and I pondered about the name of the new firm. We used
"Numismatic" for both of our properties as the first word, and "Fine
Arts," thinking of my classical jewelry, as the second and third
word, adding both our names.
64
Cans: The second task was finding a heavy steel vault. This was no
problem. I found one right away. More difficult to find was a
mechanic who could make about a hundred drawers of half an inch
height out of steel. These had to fit into the already purchased
vault. Such a man was eventually found. These some ninety drawers
were mounted into two steel cases and fitted into the vault. This
part was settled. Next came a stationer who could supply coverless
boxes in several sizes for each separate coin. Now came the real job.
There were well over a thousand of my coins and another thousand of
Mr. Metal's — close to two thousand coins, altogether.
Huth: Were all of these very old coins?
Gans: Yes. They were classical* Greek, Roman, etc., coins of gold, silver
and copper, the latter being mostly mine. Exclusively, the gold
coins in all sizes, from the seventeenth, eighteenth, and nineteenth
centuries were Mr. Metal's. For each one, a description label had to
be written, and a file card made out for keeping a record of the
inventory. For this purpose, I engaged the help of a friend,
Theodore Front, also a recent immigrant, to help organize the
bus! ness. He worked for me perhaps three or four months for very
modest pay. He soon found another place where he got a higher
salary, and later he established a successful music literature
business. From then on, for thirty or more years, all of the work in
the firm was done by me. I was my own typist, my own office boy, and
my own buyer and seller. But I always had the invaluable help of my
wife, who shared everything with me.
Valuable Connection with the German Numismatist, David Nussbaum
Gans: While busy with these preparations, a second miracle occurred. A Mr.
David Nussbaum appeared. Mr. Nussbaum was one of the three owners of
the three lead! ng num ismati c f irms In Germany, all located i n the
city of Frankfurt. About the turn of the century, Frankfurt was the
center of the numismatic business.
it
Huth: Worldwide or just In Germany?
Gans: In Germany. The firm of Mr. Nussbaum was called L. L. Hamburger
(Ludwig Leopold Hamburger, who, I believe, was his father-in-law.)
Then he bought the firm of the brothers Cahn, which still exists in
all Its glory in Switzerland in the second generation of Cahns, and
the f I rm of Hess.
65
Cans: Mr. Nussbaum told me at the beginning of the Nazi period his
son, Dr. Hans Nussbaum/ had established a branch office in Zurich,
Switzerland. I visited him once and bought a few coins from him.
David Nussbaum, as an old man, wanted to spend the rest of his life
in Frankfurt. On one of his business trips, his son Hans, when
flying to Paris, crashed with the plane, and now the father was
forced to take over the business in Switzerland. He did not want to
do it, because he had a daughter in Los Angeles he wanted to be near.
He discussed the problem with his old friend. Dr. Philipp Lederer.
Dr. Lederer recommended that I be selected to take over the stock and
sell it on a commission basis. He recommended me warmly as having
been his friend for many years.
In order to facilitate this transaction. Dr. Lederer declared
that he was willing to write a complete detailed catalog for all of
the stock. Mr. Nussbaum continued, 'Mere you have the story In nuce
[in a nutshell]. I want to interest you in the sale of the whole
collection on a more than fair commission basis. And I will grant
you this high commission, because I want you to sell my coins first,
and then yours." Natural ly this was a wonderful offer which I
immediately accepted.
Subsequently, Mr. Lederer compiled the catalog. Mr. Nussbaum
added, "For twenty or more years I have had an old friend, Mr.
Wormser, of the New Netherlands Coin Company, and I feel it my moral
obligation to make him this offer first."
This was a big disappointment for me because, to get the stock
of one of the leading European firms on a commission basis is the
ideal of any fresh I ing in the coin business. But of course I could
say nothing against it, because such an offer from Mr. Nussbaum to
Mr. Wormser was logical.
Huth: So he offered all of this to Mr. Wormser?
Cans: Yes. The next day Mr. Nussbaum gave me a ring and said that he had
talked to Wormser, but Mr. Wormser had said, "The offer is
flattering, but I also have material, and there is very little
business. Give me a week's time to think it over."
Three days later, Mr. Wormser died. Isn't that a miracle — not
his death, but the way things worked out?
Huth: Yes, that was amazing.
Cans: A contract was made in an hour. Everything was cleared. The coins
were on their way from Switzerland to me, and what was perhaps even
more important, the whole numismatic I ibrary was handed over to me.
The work connected with Mr. Metal's coins and my collection had to be
repeated now with Mr. Nussbaum1 s about two thousand coins.
66
Huth: What kind of coins were these?
Cans: All the same kind as mine. All of this required preparatory work
that took months to complete. During the first year, there was
virtually no real business, much to the disappointment of my friend
Metal.
Closina the Partnership with Mr. Metal In 1 94Q
Gans: I must insert here a few words about Mr. Metal's other activities.
He was not happy with real estate transactions. He saw the war
coming, and he nurtured bigger Ideas concerning the national
i nterest.
He bought a fur coat, traveled to Newfoundland, and studied
several aspects of this island. After a month, he returned. He
requested an audience with President Franklin D. Roosevelt, which was
granted. He said to the president, "I have two problems. First, I
see the war coming, and for security purposes, the United States
should buy the island of Newfoundland from Canada. My second
interest is to find a way to help the Jews in Germany. You, the
president, should come to an arrangement with Hitler and grant a
portion of the United States to the Jews, such as a state." I
believe he named one of the Dakotas or Utah.
The president received him very kindly, but as history taught us,
nothing came of it. But Metal's veneration for the president
continued. He ordered a well-known artist to devise a medal in honor
of President Roosevelt, which he inscribed with the words: 'To a
humanitarian." He dedicated a set in platinum, gold, silver and
bronze to the president. A small number of these medals in silver
and bronze are even available in the trade.
Gans: A close friend of Mr. Metal was Stadtrat [town councilor] Breitner, a
man who had worked to rebuild part of Vienna. At about the same time
Mr. Metal presented his medal to President Roosevelt, Breitner and
Metal discussed all kinds of new plans, including where they should
settle. They finally dec! ded to move to Cal Iforni a.
Huth: When they discussed these new plans, what were they for?
67
Cans: For a new city. That means that Mr. Metal gave up his interest in
Numismatic Fine Arts. He accompl ished the separation in a most
generous way and we parted as friends.
One Jicn mojt was reported to me from Mr. Metal at that time. An
agent came to him and offered him timber to build a new town, and he
repl ied, "Do you think I buy timber when I am in evening dress? I
buy the whole woods."
That ends what I have to say about Metal. I had kept my nice.
cheap, little apartment on Staten Island all this time. Daily,
during this preparatory work for Numismatic Fine Arts, I traveled by
bus, ferry, and subway to the office. The word "daily" is not an
exaggeration. I worked seven days a week, learning numismatics from
all the books that had arrived from Nussbaum.
There was an additional positive factor at that time. In New
York City, the American Numismatic Society (ANS), was an institution
equal to the coin cabinets of the British Museum in London, in Paris,
or in Berlin. I had already subscribed to a membership in 1938, soon
after my arrival.
When the president of ANS, Mr. Edgar T. Newell, and the curator,
Mr. Noe, heard of the establishment of Numismatic Fine Arts, they
promised their help. Later, I will explain how they helped.
Some Further Thoughts about the Storv to Cone
Gans: My seals, collected in those early days of business, are now a
permanent loan to UC Berkeley. With them, we want to create a new
discipline. It must be of a suitable style for the university.
Now comes the story about how I first met Professor Wolfgang
Heimpel, curator of my collection of seals at UC Berkeley. By
chance, I met Ann Kilmer. She is still associated with the
University and was, at that time, a young girl, and we spoke about my
collection. She said, "You should meet my friend Heimpel." So it's
about ten years or longer that we have been friends. The wonderful
thing is that everybody at the University — Ann Kilmer, Heimpel, and
other professors are all so happy with the whole development. There
is no competition. There is no unfriendliness.
Huth: None of the things you run into in business?
Gans: No. None of that. It is an educational center, so it should be nice.
68
Huth: Yes. Because i t' s a university.
Gans: There is no avarice. They do everything together. They are all
nice. In every business there is competition, but with me there was
no competition for thirty years. I am only a giver of a new thing
with my gift of seals. I am helping to create something. That's the
idea. Here we give. It's all give.
Huth: Yes, it's a different approach.
Gans: It's all nice. And amusing things always happened along the way.
Huth: And unusual things, too. Your miracles came along the way.
Gans: I call everything a miracle. Later on, I will tell you how I got my
seals — that was also a miracle. My first acquisition of seals, my
second seals — everything a miracle. My next story will start with
our move to — Do you know New York?
Huth: Yes, I know New York.
Gans: We moved to Madison Avenue. We moved to the corner of 95th Street,
into what had been a doctor's apartment with two entrances. I wil I
tel I you about a man who drove by my corner in order to come to the
front of his own house on Fifth Avenue. He was a Frenchman, and the
richest man In New York City, who became my regular customer, al I
because he saw a new sign, "Numismatic" —he said to himself, "I will
go and see what it is." Everything was a miracle! I have so much to
tel I !
[Interview 5: October 31, 1983]##
Professional Affiliations Begin in New York Citv, 1938
Gans: My passion for collecting remained unchanged. A few months after my
arrival in the U.S. in 1938 I joined the Archeologi cal Institute of
America and the American Numismatic Society (ANS). The latter (ANS)
had a real museum in the same style as the great, leading European
societies. I also had the privilege of meeting the ANS president,
Mr. Edward T. Newell, who on occasion showed me unusual coins or
collections. Particularly impressive was an afternoon when he showed
me part of a collection of Near Eastern seals, something I had never
seen before.
69
Cans: The Archeologi cal Institute of America has branches in many
leading cities In this country. When I moved to Berkeley in the
early 1950's, the San Francisco branch held most of its meetings at
the University of California at Berkeley [U.C.] There were usually
half a dozen meetings during the season* and a special business
meeting, always in connection with a lecture by scholars, mostly
American, and others who came from all over the world.
At one time, for the customary period of two years, Professor W.
Kendrick Pritchett of U.C. and I were president and vice president,
respectively, of the San Francisco branch. These meetings were
usually very interesting, because one could meet local as well as
foreign scholars, who were usually not easily accessible. But there
was virtually never any business conducted at these sessions.
In New York In 1938, at the time I'm speaking about today, the
ANS had only an occasional lecture where one could meet a serious
collector of classical coins. I remember the first such meeting,
when Mr. Newell spoke about the coins of the Greek islands, and then
he asked another well-versed collector to continue this topic, that
person having just returned from a visit to all these Islands. This
was Professor Arthur S. Dewing, who, in a humorous way, spoke more
about the different kinds of wines of these islands than about the
coins he saw and collected there. Mr. Newell introduced me to him,
and a kind of friendship was established. At this point, we were
unaware that a business connection would be founded later.
1940 Move to Madison Avenue and 95th Street; A Growing Business
Cans: Coming back to the farewell with Mr. Julio Metal, it became necessary
for me to find a new business location in 1944. My wife and I
decided that the way our friend. Dr. Philipp Lederer, had conducted
his business In Berl in, was the most practical and also the least
expensive for us in New York. We looked for an apartment, and found
one that was relatively close to the Metropol itan Museum. It was on
Madison Avenue on the corner of 95th Street. It had been a doctor's
apartment with two entrances, and the rooms located at the 95th
Street entrance were planned to use in my business.
At that time in New York there were scores, If not hundreds of
dealers in antiquities. There were also dozens of coin dealers who
dealt in American coins. But there was no dealer who specialized in
classical coins.
70
Cans: As I said earlier, the first year was filled with preparations.
A few minor coins were sold, but that was insignificant, and the
first year ended with a loss, due to normal expenses but little
income. Now in 1940 the serious business began. The first customer
was Mr. Newell, who had never before seen an American dealer with
such a rich collection of Greek coins.
Huth: Was he pleased by your background and your knowledge?
Cans: I had a background in coins, but little knowledge of antiquity. That
I will mention later. He made it a point to come at regular
intervals, and when he saw my collection of Roman gold coins, he was
very much Impressed. One result was that he called up a Mr. Bliss*,
who was responsible for the Dumbarton Oaks col lection, to tel I him
about my col lection.
Huth: Was he the curator at Dumbarton Oaks?
Gans: No, the owner. He was a former ambassador. He married a woman who
was very rich. Mr. Newell told Mr. Bliss about the newly established
firm. Numismatic Fine Arts, which had a wonderful collection of a
hundred Roman gold coins. He recommended that Bliss add them to his
collection, the Byzantine series. But Mr. Bliss had no interest at
that time, and that business deal failed. It was about this time
that the tragic event of Mr. Newel I's death occurred, and I lost a
good customer and friend.
An Interesting Friend and Customei — Maxime Velav
Gans: As I mentioned earlier, there are miracles scattered throughout my
life. Another one was the following. It was the start of a
friendship that lasted until I moved to California — my friendship
with Maxime Velay. He was a gentleman of taste who never argued
about price and who had a sense for quality. He always wanted the
very best, and his usual reply when he was not completely satisfied
was, "C*est JA£ peu fatigue." meaning: "Those coins are a little
tired."
* Robert Woods Bliss: Diplomat; former counselor of the U.S. embassy
at Paris, ambassador to Argentina (1927), and co-founder and
administrator of the Dumbarton Oaks Research Library and Collection,
Washington, D. C.
71
it
Gans: Velay had an unfailing taste for everything small. In his
collection* I saw Greek and Roman coins* French coins* Renaissance
medals* and small artwork of the finest taste from every country.
Once In a while he Invited me for a cup of tea and a look at his new
acquisitions. I believe 95 percent of his collection came either
from Dr. Jacob Hirsch or from me. Dr. HIrsch was perhaps the best-
known coin dealer in the world.
I said before that he always wanted the best. There was one
exception* and I believe he would still laugh about It. I had a
beautiful Sicilian coin — with the usual head of the nymph surrounded
by four dolphins. He fell in love with It* but that was the only
coin he was Interested in. The next day he came back laughing*
saying he had seen exactly the same coin at Dr. HIrsch's place. He
said* "I would I Ike to take yours to compare the two specimens." The
following day he came again and said* "It Is the identical coin* the
same condition* but centered slightly differently. On your coin* the
end of the tall of one dolphin Is missing. On Dr. HIrsch's specimen*
the coin Is fully centered. But your coin costs three hundred
dollars* and Dr. HIrsch wants six hundred. To pay three hundred
dollars for a dolphin's tall — thafs too much for me." [laughter]
"I'll take yours."
A Third Organization; The American Numismatic Association (ANA)
Gans: I still have to mention the third coin organization* the American
Numismatic Association (ANA). It Is by far the greatest but
Interested almost exclusively In American coins.
My friend* Edward T. Newell, was the president of the American
Numismatic Society, and this Is the American Nunlsmatlc Association.
Huth: Oh, they're entirely different?
Gans: Yes. There are scores of "daughters" of the ANA. In New York alone*
there was the New York Numismatic Association, the Brooklyn
Association and another In the Bronx.
Huth: Are they branches?
72
Cans: Yes. There were branches all over the country — in New York/
Brooklyn* the Bronx. There were meetings every month* and Mr. Newel I
paid them the great honor of visiting a number of these monthly
meetings* speaking a few words about classical coins* having most
probably In mind to also Interest collectors of American coins In
foreign and ancient coins.
I think that I should also mention a companion of Mr. Newell.
Professor Thomas Oliver Mabbott (he usually called himself Tom). He
was a professor at Hunter Collage In New York* and an editor of Edgar
Allen Poe's works for Harvard University. He had a charming
personality. He was helpful to everybody and Interested in the
poorest littlest ancient coins. He had limited means and very often
made valuable discoveries. I also became a member of some of these
branch associations* trying to find customers for my lower-priced
ancient coins. But I had limited success.
The Well Published Classical Jewelry Exhibitions and Personal
Business Stvle
Gans: I became a friend of a number of art dealers who tended to look down
on the coin trade* and they wanted me to do something with my other
collections* especially the jewelry. My so-called exhibition room
was decorated nicely with showcases. In November* 1940* a great
exhibition was arranged. The press took much notice of it. Local
scholars and even some from other cities — lots of interesting
people came, and the guest book Is preserved. Everything was
perfect, except the financial result. But, at least my name became
somewhat known.
Let me mention that I I Ike everything smal I and modest. As I
said earlier. In thirty years* I never had an employee. I was my own
buyer, seller, office boy, and typist. Only my wife was my true
comrade and helper, always ready to be at my side. I have never
applied for credit at any bank In thirty years, always feeling I
would rather sleep well than eat well. In the first ten years of my
activity In New York. I did not miss a single day and let only my wife
and child have a deserved rest.
Huth: You didn't take any vacations?
Gans: No. I di dn»t take one for ten years. From the beg I nnl ng, I had a
relatively large Inventory, which I augmented with only occasional
purchases through the auction sales of Mr. George Bauer, who once was
a very rich and knowledgeable collector, but now was forced to
dispose of some material. He was In Rochester, New York. People got
to know me and came to me when I had something to offer.
73
More on Family Background
Gans: I will mention one more person* my cousin, Mrs. Olga Blschoff, for
whom I could send my affidavit and thereby I saved her from
Hitler's murder. She was married to Legatlonsrat [legation
councillor] Fritz Blschoff, of the Auswertrlge amt. Olga had to get a
divorce on account of Hitler's laws. She came on the last boat from
Europe. At first, she lived with us. Later on she found several
jobs. She helped us with the bringing up of our daughter, who loved
her very much. She was well educated, and In Germany she had many
friends In modern German literature — poets, etc. BIshoff had promised
to marry her again after the war— but he did not keep his promise.
He married again In Germany. My cousin was deeply disappointed, tried
to commit suicide, but was saved in time. I mention this story
because later on she went to Cal Ifornla, where she had a number of
friends, and she was Instrumental In bringing us to California. More
about that later.
Establlshlna Close Connections with Two Renowned Dealers
Gans: Working alone, there was not much reason to cultivate business with
other dealers. And there were only two whan I saw regularly.
Dealer Jacob HIrsch
Gans: The first was Dr. Jacob HIrsch, who let me have numismatic material
at very reasonable prices or for auction, which I regularly
conducted. On a consignment basis he also let me have anything I
wanted. Dr. HIrsch was what one can call caval ier— hel pf ul
whenever the help was deserved, of great knowledge, and particularly
during his European time he was probably the greatest dealer ever In
archeological material. In Europe, he had places of business In
Munich, Geneva, and Paris. When the war broke out, he had his
74
Gans: domicile In New York City, at 54th Street, In a hotel which I believe
•as called the Hotel Windsor. He had rented a flat of a number of
rooms, and he kept the finest and rarest Items there, not only from
classical times, but also from the Renaissance.
Huth: What kinds of things were these?
Gans: Paintings, sculptures, bronzes. He was a great scholar with a
tremendous amount of knowledge In many fields—a "Renaissance man" In
the best sense.
Dealer Joseph Brummer
Gans: The other dealer I saw regularly was Mr. Joseph Brummer. He was an
entirely different type person. At 57th Street in New York City he
had built a huge building for his treasures. He had once visited
with me In Germany some twenty years earlier, and the friendship was
soon re-established. He used to call me to Invite me for a glass of
wine In the evening. We sat In his basement, where he cleaned
certain antiquities with a toothpick and water. He would tell stories
about former business dealings, such as what he had done with Hearst,
that he had just bought one room filled with antiquities from a "Mrs.
Walter" in Baltimore, or about his purchase of a Mexican jade mask.
Finally, one evening, he asked me whether we could do business
together. I knew that classical things were not for Brummer. But
what did I have that was unusual? One thing came to mind. It was a
Germanic gold jewel, perhaps a fragment from a bracelet. And the
Interesting part Is that It was published as the last Item In M.
Rosenberg's book, Geschichte der Go I dschmledekunst «uf Technlscher
Grundlage. I bought the piece from a Dr. P. R. Martin, of Setlgnano,
near Florence.
Huth: Was that documentation many years before you had bought that piece?
Gans: Oh yes, twenty or thirty years.
Brummer was Interested and he offered me, as an exchange, a pair
of gold Greek earrings as they appear on a certain Syracusan
Tetradrachm NOW In the museum In Seattle, as the gift from Norman
Davis. More about him later.
II
75
Gans: In addition, he offered me a beautiful Etruscan fibula, which Is now
In the Cleveland Museum. Brummer looked at me, and noted that my
face looked sad. He asked me, "Isn't It enough?" And I had to
reply, "I need money." "Okay," he said, "I will add five hundred
dollars." And I was the happiest man.
Brummer had a wonderful feel Ing for art. He had a feel Ing In
his fingertips for art. Numerous unusual pieces In American museums,
we owe to him. At Brummer's auction, after his death, the fibula was
bought by Mr. Melvln Gutman.
Huth: How much of Mr. Brummer's collection did Mr. Gutman buy?
Gans: There are three volumes listing the collection. But Gutman only
bought the fibula. Gutman collected only Jewelry. This piece
reappeared at the sale of Melvln Gutman at Parke-Bernet Galleries on
December 5, 1969, as Number 159.
Friendship with Art Restorer, Joseph Ternbach
Gans: I owe to Brummer one more of my friends — Joseph Ternbach. Ternbach
was a medalist In Vienna. In New York he became an art restorer, and
he always stressed the fact that It was Brummer who taught him how to
do repairs. I believe he was the best known authority In his field
and he also became a benefactor for the museum at Queen's College.
Actually, I met Ternbach much earlier, but I mention him here In
connection with Brummer because he spoke about him so much.
Move to 101 West 55th Street. Tenth Floor. In 1942
Gans: In retrospect, I cannot complain about the start of my business at
Madison Avenue. But my family complained bitterly. It was dark,
dul I and dirty.
Huth: You mean the area where you I Ived?
Gans: Yes. The whole neighborhood was unattractive. I think after a year
and a half or two, we moved farther up to 101 West 55th Street, In
the fall of 1942. It was wonderful for my wife, because now we lived
between Carnegie Hall and Radio City Music Hall, and my daughter's
school was only a few blocks away. It was a modern building. The
76
Gans: apartment was on the tenth floor. We had a beautiful view
overlooking Central Park* and nobody could visit me without being
announced by the porter. The house was as elegant as any of the good
hotels* and the price was tolerable.
Huth: You didn't have two entrances any longer, then?
Gans: No. One entrance.
The 1942 Letter on Numismatics to Universities. Colleaes» and Museums
Gans: Would you please read that? It Is a letter that was Important for my
bus) ness.
Huth: [reading] Honored member of the faculty, you are aware of the close
connection between numismatics and your particular branch of
learning. Is your field art, history, theology, mythology,
architecture, botany, zoology, law, medicine, economics?" You had
some connection that you made with all those fields In your letter?
Gans: [laughs] That was my greatest success, this letter.
Huth: You said here, "We have chosen just a few examples to show the close
connection between numismatics and practically every science or
branch of our daily life. To facilitate a selection for building up a
school collection, or for any purpose whatsoever, we have decided to
make a catalog of our large stock. Part one of it is just Issued,
and we are sending It free of charge to anybody upon request. For
further information contact Numismatic Fine Arts, Edward Gans." And
your address was 30 East 95th Street at that time — May, 1942. The
letter was sent to universities?
Gans: All universities.
Huth: Only In New York?
Gans All over America. It would have been wise, had I announced my move
In that letter.
Huth: But you didn't.
Gans: No.
Huth: You moved about that time to 55th Street?
NUM ISM ATI C
FINE ARTS
EDWARD CANS
76a
May, 1942
Honored member of the faculty:
Are you aware of the close connection "between Numismatics and
your particular branch of learning?
Is your field:
Art? The great creations of die cutters like Euainetos, Kimon,
Phrygillos and others are masterworks in themselves. Greek
coins of Athens, Elis and many other cities as well as Roman
coins show masterworks of sculpture known only by these coins.
History? The precision of chronological, geographical and linguistic
knowledge rendered by numismatics is an invaluable help for
history. Sometimes coins are the only proof of the existence
of certain emperors. The 12 Caesars, indeed the portraits of
practically all Roman and Byzantine emperors are splendidly
illustrated on coins.
Theology? The coins of the Bible, the portraits of Christ and the Apostles
and other scenes are graphically presented.
Mythology? All the gods and goddesses of the Olympos as well as the heroes,
nymphs, muses, monsters, etc., are found on coins'.
Architecture? We find the labyrinth and the temples, the statues and bridges,
arches and herms on numerous Roman coins.
Botany & All kinds of plants and animals are depicted on Greek and Roman
Zoology? coins and interesting books and pamphlets are written on this
subject.
Law and Numerous allusions to these important sciences are found on
Medicine? coins, as for instance voting scenes or pictures of Asklepios
and Hygieia. Thousands of medals exist with portraits of
famous scholars from all periods.
Economics? The huge series of Roman gold and silver coins teaches us
strikingly the "inflation" of the first centuries of our era.
The first coinages were of full weight; soon started a diminu
tion which was later on accompanied by a debasement of precious
metal. Finally the coins contained only a small percentage of
precious metal at all, the weight was reduced and even the art
is not worth mentioning.
We have chosen just a few examples to show the close connection between
numismatics and practically every science or branch of our daily life.
To facilitate a selection for building up a school collection or for
any purpose whatsoever, we have decided to make a catalogue of our
large stock. Part I of it is just issued and we are sending it free of
charge to anybody upon request.
Any further information or suggestions will gladly be furnished.
Very truly yours,
NUMISMATIC FINE ARTS
EDWARD GANS.
77
Gans: I was there on 95th Street for two more months. The necessity of
the move was dictated by a business fact, In May of 1942.
Huth: You moved In the fall of 1942?
Gans: Yes. And In May of 1942 I sent this circular letter to a great
number of universities, colleges, and museums all over the country.
I advertised the necessity of showing coins, because coins are
related to so many different fields. And from then on, the real
business started. It will not be necessary to write about particular
business deals, but what I will say about my friendship with faculty
members and future faculty members will follow later.
[Interview 6: November 7, 1983] it
Good Response to the Circular Letter
Gans: I have reported about the preliminaries, but the real business
activity comes now. I remember the Hamburg lesson: The ability of a
merchant Is measured by the fact that he does not fill needs, but
that he has to create needs. My purpose was not to fill the needs of
any ordinary person. My appeal went to learning Institutions and the
people around them. As I said earlier, I sent a circular letter
addressed to universities and museums, stressing the many connections
their professions have with what we encounter on and with coins.
First of all, the economic and historical connections. But then come
so many other connecting points: art, art objects, botanical, animal,
and so on.
And I daresay that the response was remarkable. I was able to
make many contacts with professors and teachers at universities,
colleges, and high schools, who borrowed coins for their teaching
projects, and eventually they could establish funds for forming new
collections for their Institutions.
A consequence of this was that the collecting spirit that exists
naturally In students' minds brought some of the younger generation
to my place. I liked to talk with young people, and they In turn
started further accumulations, too.
One point I stressed from the beginning: "When you pay me five
dollars for a coin, do not think that you pay It for the coin as
such. In reality, you paid me only one dollar for the coin and four
dollars for the accompanying label, because of the knowledge you
picked up with your purchase, which you find expressed on the label
paper. That is what counts In reality."
78
Establishing a Connection w 1 th Istanbul Dealers for Valuable
Materials In 1942
Cans: It was strange — at about the same time that I real ly started doing a
good business* another connection was established, I really do not
know how It came about. I made the acquaintance* by way of
correspondence* with a Turkish dealer In Istanbul* who offered me
lots. I could buy hundreds of practically Identical or similar
coins* from localities such as Tarsus* Persia* Aspendus* and many
other places. Besides* from friends I also got coins from such
European places as Athens and Sicily. I will mention more about that
later. This was the time of World War II and shortly after.
In those countries* they all wanted dollars. Practically all my
colleagues were interested In American coins* and these lots were
priced at a few dollars each. This made it possible for me to have
more sellers and collectors.
Huth: Was this about the time you wrote that circular letter?
Cans: Yes* this was all about the same time, about 1942.
Huth: So this Is where you got a lot of the coins that you could use for
these new university and college connections.
Gans: Yes. While I will try to refrain from using numbers* I'll just
mention something I find humorous now. I once bought a lot
consisting of many coins from Persia and Croesus at a price of less
than one dollar* and some from the Sasanians for even less.
79
VIII EXPANDING IN NUMISMATICS THROUGH CONTACTS WITH SCHOLARS:
1942 TO 1951
Gans: As far as my memory permits today (I'm speaking of a time forty years
ago and more), I remember conversations with scholars that took place
from time to time. I learned from them and now I had new tasks that
I tried to fulfill.
Connection with Dr. Karl Lehmann-Hartl eben
Gans: For Instance, there was Dr. Karl Lehmann-Hartl eben. He was the
excavator of Samothrace, where the Temple of the Dioscuri was
located.
Huth: [reading] "The seat of the famous mysteries of the Kabirl. The
coins of this island seem to be all subsequent to the death of
Lysimachus.M
Gans: It was a fun task for me to locate, here and there, specimens from
this island, and I admired Professor Lehmann's energy to secure, not
only payments for what I could offer him, but also his zeal In
searching for artifacts that had been sold and taken from the island.
ft
Gans: Each and every specimen I located was restituted to the Island of
Samothrace, where they found a place In the local museum. Professor
Lehmann belonged to the avant garde of scholars who wanted to be
certain that art works were preserved where they were created, a
fight that has continued to this day with growing energy, and will
continue for many years to come.
80
Gans: I feel eventually a consensus will be found* and my personal
attitude Is that learning Institutions deserve the vorrang [come
first]* and museums should be considered when beauty and size of
Items meet their demands. Unfortunately* Dr. Lehmann passed away at
an early date. I believe Mrs. Lehmann Is still teaching at a
university In the East.
Another Friend. Scholar David M. Robinson
Gans: Another scholar* whom I believe I can count among my friends* was
Professor David M. Robinson from Johns Hopkins University. He
excavated Olynthus* Macedonia [shows copy of Robinson's book. See
D. M. Robinson* Excavations at Qlynthusl. I don't have his other
book, which he has written together with his partner — Jones and
Robi nson.
Huth: This second book Is titled The Manual of Greek Numismatics.
Gans: He liked to acquire any available specimens of coins for his personal
collection. He collected Greek jewelry, and by chance* we found in
our collections one single identical earring.
Huth: So that made a pair?
Gans: Yes. It made a pair* because I let him have my specimen. This
strengthened our friendship.
In later years, he moved to Mississippi* and when I Informed him
of my Intention to move to Berkeley* California* he replied that I
should seek a connection with Professor Darryl Amyx, who he said will
be "the coming man" [leading scholar].
All his prophecies came true. I had the privilege of
establ ishlng closer relations with Professor Amyx over the years* and
now Professor Amyx Is retired and I am a very old man of ninety-six
who Is reviewing the past.
81
A Story About Authenticity of Coins and
Professor Anes Baldwin Brett
Gans: While speaking and thinking about coins* an eternal problem for the
collector comes back to my mind* and It's the problem of genuineness.
In this connection* I will relate an interesting story. When Mr.
David Nussbaum gave all of his collection to me» he Instructed me
with all decisiveness* "There will never be a fake coin sold by the
Nussbaums. And I will not allow you to sell this coin*" pointing to
a gold stater (ten dollar piece) from somewhere. This was supposed
to be a forgery. It was a beautiful coin* and considering the
prevail ing story about it* I had it mounted later as a brooch for my
wife* which would be considered a criminal act by numismatists were
It genuine. The greatest authority on coinage from [the area of the
supposedly false coin] Is Professor Agnes Baldwin Brett, who wrote
the book on this coinage, covering each Item minted. She once
visited with me. I showed her the coin, and she said* "Yes* this Is
a forgery." A few months later she visited me again, asked to see
the coin again, and said, "I don't know why, but today I like the
coin much better than the first time. But still* I can't declare
that It is genuine."
And again, months later* at her third visit* and her third
examination, she just shrugged her shoulders and said* "It is a
strange specimen. It could well happen that a new specimen Is
discovered that was struck from the same die* and thereby prove It to
be genuine. So I can only say* I do not know."
When I told the story to one of my leading numismatist
colleagues* he agreed with Mrs. Baldwin and said* "I would gladly
include it in one of my auctions* but I simply want to avoid trouble.
As you know* our International Association of Professional
Numismatists has a strict ethics rule that any forgery acquired in an
auction may be returned* and has to be refunded by the auctioneer.
Why should I expose myself to all these business risks?"
I personally feel that there are not only genuine or fake
coins, but there is also a small category of questlonables, as this
experience shows. And by all ethical considerations, this problem
should be reconsidered and redlscussed by the IAPN (the International
Association of Professional Numismatists), the trade, and collectors
In general.
82
Professor Alfred Sa I monv— -Friend and Art History Scholar
Gans: I will briefly mention Professor Alfred Salmony. There was no
business connection whatsoever. His field was Steppe art from Russia
and Oriental arts. He's with the New York University Fine Arts
Department. Oriental arts Interested us as erstwhile collectors in
this field; and the literature on Steppe art was* to a great extent*
written In Russian. Since my wife was Russian-born, she could help
him with difficult translations.
Professor Ernst Herzfel d— Excavator and Coin Collector
Gans: Now» I will talk about Professor Ernst Herzfel d.
Huth: Was Professor Herzfeld also at New York University?
Gans: No. He was not In New York.
I think I met Professor Herzfeld at Joseph Brummer's. He had an
Interesting collection of coins* mostly from the Persian region.
Herzfeld had excavated in Persia for about twenty years. He had
excavated Pasargade [also PasargardaL Samarra» In present-day lraq»
and Susa. Most of what he brought home he had sold to Brummer, and
the remaining objects — all small In size and of no Importance — he
left with me on consignment. I put his coins in a special coin
auction* for which Herzfeld wrote a statement explaining some
doubtful historical problems.
He became a friend of the late Kaiser in Deutschland* whose
autographed photo was standing on his piano. And the late Shah of
Iran used his excavated ruins at the place (a place name I can't
remember now)* for his Thousand Years Celebration a couple of years
ago.
In the last few years while we were living In Germany, we became
close friends, and Herzfeld and his sister were frequently my guests.
His literary work was of great importance to science* and he Is
generally acknowledged as one of the leaders In his field.
it
83
Gans: When he came to America* he gave some lectures at Harvard or
Princeton — I don't remember where. I believe he had his home at
Princeton before he closed his eyes In Switzerland.
One of his pupils was Professor Richard Ettl nghausen, from the
Smithsonian Institution. In the same circle was a Dr. Miles. He was
a curator for Oriental and Egyptian art.
Huth: Was he a curator for the American Numismatic Society?
Gans: Yes. And he belonged to the circle with whom I had an occasional
connection.
Professor Guldo Kisch, Margareta Bleber. Glsala Rlchter. Homer and
Dortothv Thompson: Scholars and Collectors
Gans: In New York City, I happened to meet Professor Guldo KIsch. I do not
remember details about his activities. He collected Jewish
antiquities, and was, by profession, a law professor in Halle,
Germany, and perhaps also In New York. I met him only occasionally
as a collector of Jewish coins. With the Nussbaum collection, I
acquired a curious medal which Intrigued me. I remember visiting a
scholar at City University of New York who led me to the correct
interpretation, which I followed. For hundreds of years, this medal
was described as the Canbyses Justice Medal. Professor KIsch
gave his explanation, from a legal point of view. And the whole
article was publ [shed, as you can see here, In the Art Bui let In of
June 1947.
Before, I mentioned Agnes Baldwin Brett. She was usually
accompanied by Professor Margareta Bleber, who specialized in female
costumes of the Classical Greek period and of the time of Alexander
the Great. I told you about Miss Glsela Rlchter, the world-renowned
curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, whom I met again at a
reception she gave In honor of an antiquities congress In Rome in
1961. I feel honored to have maintained regular contact with all
three ladies.
But in this connection, I must mention the names of Homer and
Dorothy Thompson, whom we met in Athens, literally excavating and
screening shards and pebbles through a big sieve. For quite a time
we observed their activities, and were honored by an Invitation to
lunch.
84
Huth: You mean your wife and you?
Gans: Yes.
Huth: And you were on vacation there?
Gans: Yes. This was our first vacation. We visited Athens* Greece, and
the Greek Islands. That was In 1948.
The Largest Privately Owned Numismatic Library;
Transfer to UCLA through Professor Milton Anastos
Gans: I have to close with a report about Milton Anastos.
Huth: He's at the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA).
Gans: Yes. These scholars come to my mind now* and I will close this list,
though others might fol low. One more was Professor Anastos.
Huth: What is he a professor of?
Gans: I believe Reman or Byzantine literature.
Professor Anastos had the great gift to convince me that my
great numismatic library belonged at his university. This was a
difficult decision for me, but, In a way, he was right, because a
number of books and issues of all the International magazines were
stored In my garage. It was undoubtedly the largest such literary
collection In private hands. I was sad to part with my books but
happy that it went to an Institution of learning.
[Interview 7: November 14, 19833/1
The Dumbarton Oaks Connection ; Scholars and Numismatists
Gans: So far I've spoken about university professors and other scholars
with whom I had regular connections. In addition, a number of
smaller coin collectors came tome, and made regular additions. But
now» after thirty or more years, I've forgotten their names, and I
remember only places — like Albany, New York, Kansas City,
Mississippi, Berkeley, and others — places with which I had regular
correspondence.
85
Gans: But mainly on my mind now is Dumbarton Oaks* where the relationships
were diversified in a strange way.
Earlier, I mentioned the Introduction from Mr. Edgar T. Newell.
At my first visit in Washington [D.C.] I met Mr. Thatcher, who was
the director of the museum there. At that time, the museum stressed
the Byzantine culture, and the head of the numismatic division was
Professor Whi ttimore. He was my first connection, so that goes back
maybe to 1940, or perhaps 1942 or 1943. He had already built up a
remarkable series. He always carried a list of Byzantine emperors
for whom he wanted representative coins.
I mentioned before that I had established a connection with a
dealer in Istanbul who proved to be very cooperative and efficient.
Practically every time he sent me his regular consignments of smaller
or greater lots, he added a few — mostly sol I di [gold coins]-- of our
desiderata (a list of what we wanted). This was much to the delight
of Mr. Whlttlmore, whose list shortened and shortened, and eventually
there remained two or three extremely rare coins which my friend In
Istanbul could not provide. Intermittently, I could offer the
Dumbarton Oaks museum objects of art, and one or the other was
accepted.
Huth : This was the museum at Dumbarton Oaks?
Gans: Yes, their coin department.
I became acquainted with many scholars who worked at Dumbarton
Oaks. There was, for Instance, Professor Freund* from Chicago.
Professor Freund had a special taste for unusual variations of the
Byzantine series. He formed a splendid collection in this field, but
unfortunately he died at a relatively young age. He left his
collection to Dumbarton Oaks, and I was asked to evaluate this
collection for tax purposes.
On another visit to Washington I met, just by chance, the just-
mentioned English scholar, Whlttlmore, who showed me the newest
acquisition. If I remember correctly, this was a certain kind of
sol idl that was used by the emperor at the court In Istanbul as
seals. For me, my last deal with Dumbarton Oaks was the saddest one.
I was entrusted with the sale of the duplicates of the Byzantine
coins in the museum. I believe today, after twenty-three years, I am
allowed to disclose the name of the museum as the source.
Years later, I met Mr. Robert Woods Bl Iss at his cl ub In New
York, in connection with an Important work of art he was Interested
in. Then later, when he died, I would express my condolences to Mrs.
Mildred Bliss at the museum, where she spent her time. At one time,
Mr. Bliss was a U.S. State Department official in France. I have
talked so far about museums and numismatic scholars.
86
Numismatic Fine Arts and New Friendships with Collectors
of Ancient Coins ##
Gans: I have to mention a number of persons who considered the collection
and study of coins a very serious and, at the same time* pleasant
hobby.
Arthur S. Dewlng's Remarkable Collection and his Frugality
Gans: The first one, Mr. Maxlme Velay, I have already mentioned. But at
that time I had also met Professor Arthur S. Dewing. Was It at the
time when I had already established Numismatic Fine Arts, or was It
even earlier, when I was still a dreamer? I honestly do not
remember. Anyway, we talked very often, and he Invited me to his
place In Boston to show me his collection. It was a remarkable event
In many respects. It showed a kind of character trait which I could
not take really seriously, but which had an effect on me. When in
the following lines I tell some unusual stories, the reader will
understand why I simply could not take them seriously.
One day I rode to Boston by train. Mr. Dewing met me at the
train station. At his home, I sat down at the table and he brought
out tray after tray of the most precious coins. He spoke of a man In
Cambridge from whom he had gotten these extremely rare coins, which,
for the first time, showed an inscription In letters. He gave me
numerous explanations, which I did not understand. I had begun the
study of Roman coins, but Greek coins were an enigma to me. Only In
later years would Greek letters and Greek coins become a science that
I tried to learn. I spent several hours at his house, where new
trays of coins came one after the other. Finally he said, "Now it's
enough. I1 1 I take you to your train." En route he asked me, "Can I
buy you a glass of beer?" which I refused. When we came to a tol I
bridge, he mentioned, "This I do not cross. It costs a dime. I'll
take the next one. That costs nothing." [laughter]
At a later time, at another visit to my house, I offered him a
Syracusan coin for sixty dollars, which was too much for him. At
another visit at a later date, he stumbled over the same coin, which
now cost ninety dollars. In all friendship I could tell him, "You
could have gotten this coin for sixty dollars at your last visit, but
then It was too expensive for you."
87
Gans: Mr. Dewing had studied law In Munich, and he used to address me In
German when he telephoned. Naturally. I recognized his voice at
once. When he called me one afternoon he said* "Can I see you
tonight?" He came, and from a handkerchief he unwrapped a dekadrachm
of Agrlgentum. He said In an angry voice. "This I have bought from
Dr. Hlrsch for seven thousand dollars." This was one of the rarest
of coins, and I was very much Interested In seeing It. That same
evening he bought a small group of Greek coins from me. among which
was also a dekadrachm from Naxos. for which he paid three or four
hundred dollars. This sale happened prior to our move to California.
I needed money, and I got a good deal. During that evening, my wife
came In with a bottle of wine, and he told her, "I have just come
from Ohio, where I have bought four candy factories." Interrupting
himself, he stepped out to get a box of candy. He opened It with
trembling hands, and offered it to my wife. Asya. One piece of candy
fell on the floor. He pointed to It and said to my wife, "That you
can have." closed the box. and that was It.
At that time, we lived a few blocks from Central Park, on Sixth
Avenue, between 56th and 59th Streets. It was close to midnight when
Professor Dewing left. He had two big suitcases. He asked me how he
could get to the home of his daughter, who lived at Madison Avenue
and 82nd Street. I told him to take a taxi from In front of our
house, and his reply was: "Do you think I would spend money for a
taxi? I'll walk from 56th to 59th, and take a bus crossing over to
59th and then transferring to Madison Avenue." This after he had
spent ten thousand dollars for coins the same evenlngl He visited me
also In Berkeley. When he visited me In Berkeley, It was only to
talk, because the prices were too high.
ft
Dr. J. Hewitt Judd, Omaha: Greek and American Coins,
and a Burglary Loss
Gans: Another person with whom I maintained friendly relations over many
years was Dr. J. Hewitt Judd. an eye doctor who lived In Omaha. He
was a professor at the university there. He had a beautiful house,
with something I had never seen before — a steel cabinet encased In
cement, for his coins.
Huth: Would that be like a big vault?
Gans: Yes, a kind of vault. He had a vault In his house with a steel door,
88
Cans: which he had acquired years ago from a bank that had gone broke. In
his early use of the vault, on one side he had Greek coins* and on
the other* American coins. Both sides were of the highest quality.
The years went on, and he decided to give up the American series
and concentrate on Greek coins. He always gave a party for ten to
twelve people when we came. My wife and I stayed at his home. The
director of the Omaha Museum was always Invited. Relationships with
the museum were soon created. I had a few Renaissance busts and
other Italian art works which I gave to the museum. So I could, In a
way, repay Dr. Judd's kindness to me.
Dr. Judd had an extremely fine eye and could detect details
which even numismatists could not recognize. He assembled a
beautiful collection of perhaps five hundred Items. And strangely
enough, he had some one hundred gold coins which were extremely rare,
and four hundred silver coins.
I remember the 15th of May, 1975. The Judds came to my home
here In Berkeley for a cup of coffee. At that time, their only
daughter was married and lived in San Francisco. Dr. Judd selected
ten Greek coins which he believed were not represented In his
collection and which he wanted to take home for checking.
Ten days later I got a call from him in Omaha. His vault had
been broken Into and all the coins stolen. My own ten coins had also
been taken, but I was insured, and so that was negligible. But his
own coins, which were also insured, he had handled in a negligent
way. They were Insured, but he had believed In his vault. He should
have raised the insurance value to a multi-dollar figure.
A catalog of the Inventory could be made, and a year or two
later a group of coins appeared somewhere In Europe which were
suspected of being Judd's coins. I was the only one who really knew
Judd's collection. I was invited by the INA to examine them In
Chicago.
Huth: What's the INA?
Gans: Thafs the name of an Insurance company — INA. I was invited to come
to Chicago to examine the recovered lot. One single Item I could
prove to be Judd's, which proved that the owner, the dealer, had more
stolen Items. Many months later I was invited again to examine the
second lot, which consisted solely of Judd's coins. The second
invitation I had to refuse. I was already over eighty. The coins
were In Montreal, and the judge would not al low them to be sent to
Berkeley. From then on, I lost track of the coins. I heard later
that the majority of the silver coins (which are very Important In
the Greek series) were recovered. But not a single gold coin was
retrieved.
89
Gans: Later I had a card from Mrs. Judd that reported her husband was very
sick and that they had left their home. This was a tragic end for
charming people and a beautiful collection, for whom I will always
have the utmost affection.
Burton Y. Berry, Istanbul: Collector of Phillip and Alexander Coins
Gans: Now I will talk about another person from an entirely different
circle, Mr. Burton Y. Berry, who worked for the State Department.
His address was the University Club in Washington, D.C.
Huth: Was he a coin dealer?
Gans: No.
Huth: Shal I I read this note you wrote about him for your scrapbook?
Gans: Yes.
Huth
Gans:
[reads] "We met soon after our move to the United States. I think he
must have found me. I remember smal 1 1 sh transactions and mal I Ing to
the University Club, a place about which I formed some strong Ideas.
When he Invited me to visit him there, I eagerly accepted his
Invitation. I remember him picking me up and showing me the club,
his big gym, the many bathrooms, and finally his room."
Was th
Washington?
it
Is the point at which he Invited you and you flew to
Yes, he Invited me one day, and I flew to Washington. He showed me
the University Club, which had a very large and practical gym. His
room was very modest and it contained I ittle more than an Iron
bedstand, a little cabinet, and a washstand. I was very surprised
that a high official with the State Department would live In such
primitive surroundings.
But then he brought out little boxes that contained 100 gold
staters from the time of Phillip and Alexander, which made everything
all right, with each more beautiful than the other. Such beauty In
such quantity I had never seen before.
90
Cans: A kind of friendship was established, and from then on, I got a
call relatively often from Washington with such comments as;
Tonight I'm leaving for the Near East. Can I see you around eight
o'clock?"
He would come. We had a pleasant talk, a bite to eat, a glass
of wine, and he left In the early hours of the morning. Berry always
had Interesting stories to tell.
Sometimes he found one of my coins that he wanted, but very
rarely. But on the other hand, I had much better chances to find
coins I wanted. He brought hoards of coins from the Near East, and
was generous enough to part with a few pieces. I am convinced it was
never a business deal for him, but an act of friendship. When he
retired, he built a nice house on the campus of Roberts College in
Istanbul, having made an arrangement with the administration of the
college that it would become the property of the college when he left
or died.
In 1958 we visited Istanbul. He Invited us for lunch and drove
us around the neighborhood for hours. I remember we came close to
the Black Sea, and he said to Asya, "In that direction lies Odessa,
where you were born."
To my surprise, I heard not too long ago that he left Istanbul
and moved to San Diego. We correspond once in a while. There was no
business deal since our 1958 visit, but he never failed to send me a
complimentary copy of his books about his collections, and about life
In Turkey and so on, which are all well written and Interesting.
One nice idea was that he never sent Chrtlstmas cards but
instead he sent calendars In July, which always had numismatic
references. They are all in my scrapbook, which includes a number of
photographs taken here and there from his surroundings.
Friendship with Hans von Aulock, Istanbul
Cans: I must now speak of another person who was in every respect Berry's
contrast. He also lived in Istanbul. His name was Hans von Aulock.
He was a representative of the Dresdner Bank, Germany's second
largest bank. He had a fantastic personality. I called him "the
hunter." For years we had a nice correspondence. He got a card from
me; I got a card from him — nothing exciting. But there was a feeling
on my side that this was an interesting fellow with whom I must form
a closer relationship. He was a banker, as I had been for thirty
years. We both were collectors. The word "hunter" was symbolic—
91
Gans: while I had my specialty In certain antiquities* coins* etc.* he was
a universal collector. One year In the wintertime, he flew to South
Africa to hunt lions or crocodiles, and In the fall he flew to
Hungary to hunt stags, and In between he had a hunting lodge In
Anatolia, where he hunted for I don't know what. He had a mansion on
the Bosporus Strait with a big garden, which was almost like a park.
I remember a lunch where some roasted birds were served, and he said.
These birds are now the hundred twenty thousandth animals I have
shot."
I don't know, of course, of his business dealings, but I
remember the day of our arrival when he picked us up at the airport,
and suddenly said. "I have to go Into this store. He has called. He
has something for me. So please wait here. I'll come out right
away." He did not come out right away. My wife and I waited for one
and a half hours In the sun. When he finally appeared, with a red
face and shaking hands, he only said. "I bought the finest collection
of coins of an unknown country, which are the most beautiful pieces I
have ever seen In my life." So we had to excuse It.
it
In the evening, he had a big party. The German ambassador
appeared, and I don't remember who else. In between, he took us to a
special room with a wonderful carpet, and a kind of porcelain
service, the manufacturer of which was completely unknown, and which
he later sold at a big price.
There Is another Important story concerning von Aulock which,
however, I will leave out here and talk about later.
Since then, we had an occasional exchange of letters. With his
help, I could secure a small number of important coins, but no real
business was ever transacted, and I got the news perhaps a year ago
that he and Mrs. von Aulock perished In a car accident.
Leopold Canslo, Washington, D.C. : A Special Friend
Gans: In this connection, I will mention another friend of mine, Leopold
Canslo. He occupied an Important post In the World Bank. He was
located in Washington, D.C. He Is an important numismatist and a
collector In the best sense of the word. He knows coins, he knows
history, he has good taste and a keen eye. About the time I stopped
92
Cans: numismatic activities* he did also. But he studied Anatolian coins
In detail* and dedicated his articles to the memory of von Aulock*
whom he held In high esteem.
Maybe ifs vanity, but I would like to repeat a paragraph from a
letter von Aulock wrote me In August* 1970: "Of all the great
num Ismatl sts— -al I older than I — there were three which were closest
to me In a human way: E. S. G. [Edward SIgmund] Robinson* Henry
Seyrig, and Edward Cans. The last one I have met too rarely. With
this latter person* a rare sympathy has developed. And not only
that, but a kind of soul friendship."
93
IX CHOOSING CALIFORNIA AS THE PLACE TO LIVE: A NEW BERKELEY HOME
AND NEW CONNECTIONS, 1951 TO 1957
[Interview 8: November 23, 1983]##
Deciding Where to Settle; Tour Around the United States In 1951
Gans: We I Ived In New York for about fifteen years, but were not really
very happy with this noisy, dirty city, and the terrrlble climate.
Finally, we decided to make a trip around the country by train,
visiting our friends en route, starting In Boston, then Chicago,
Omaha, Denver, Salt Lake City, and all over California, back to
Arizona, New Mexico, and home. It was an all-purpose trip,
sightseeing, etc.
Huth: Do you remember the year?
Gans: That was In 1951. The main purpose probably was to see our daughter,
who was studying at U.C. Berkeley, where a number of friends and
relatives al so I Ived.
Decision to Move to Berkeley, California, and to Bull d a Home, 1952
Gans: To move to the West was always In the back of my mind, particularly
looking toward I Ife In a smal I city, because of the poor vision of my
wife, which was constantly diminishing.
The year 1952 was supposed to be an eventful one, because It was
the fiftieth jubilee of the ANA (American Numismatic Association).
Four dealers, Including me, were Invited to arrange an Important
auction sale. Our work started In January. The sale was held at the
end of August, and Included some five thousand coins. For the
customers and collectors, It was a great event. We, the auctioneers,
were disappointed — we just broke even.
94
Gans: When we tol d our friends about our trip and what we I Iked best, we
always said Berkeley or Santa Barbara. In Berkeley, we had even
bought a small piece of land, simply for Investment purposes. So I
said to my wife, "In order to just break even, we don't need to live
in New York. We have a piece of land In Berkeley. Why not build a
little house there, live In a place where the word "snow" Is unknown,
where we meet kindly drivers, [laughter] and I ive In the atmosphere
of a great university. Our good friend In Berkeley, Mr. Oscar
Gerson, Is a famous architect. He will build a house with our
cousin's assistance, and we can end our life In pleasant
surroundings." We decided to move to California In 1952. We
actually moved In 1953. I have lived here ever since. Our hopes
were fulfilled. Twenty-five happy years were granted us here, by
gracious fate. I myself, twelve years older than my wife, had to
survive her, and I write this in my ninety-sixth year.
Continued Contact with New York Customers. In Berkeley
Gans: The friendship with my New York customers continued unabated, and
when they came to the West, they dropped in at my place.
More on Professor Arthur S. Dewing
Gans: In this connection, I remember Professor Arthur S. Dewing, whose last
visit had a pathetic character. There was no talk of buying coins,
but intimations about what to do with his old collection. He had
brought his daughter with him, for the purpose of establishing an
acquaintance, asking me to advise her when she called me. Later, I
was able to help her. The rest was tragicomic. I asked about Mrs.
Dewing, and he replied, "I left her In the car outside, and I am now
going to San Diego to see the zoo and the animals. I I Ike them
better than people." Those were the last words we ever had together.
Some of his character traits may have been disagreeable. His
avarice was disgusting. But I simply have a feeling It was a make-
do. But In spite of all this, I liked him. There must have been
something In his life that made him that way. There was gossip that,
as a young man, his family lost their whole fortune, and it was his
ambition to reestablish himself. It Is just gossip. I know nothing
about it.
95
Huth: Did you think it unusual that his wife stayed in the car?
Cans: Yes. He was here with his daughter for one and a half hours and left
his wife in the car.
Huth: Do you think he was embarrassed by the way she looked?
Gans: I don't know. I liked this person, but I should have given him a
slap when he said to my wife, "Thafs for you," referring to the
piece of candy that fell on the floor. But I was laughing. It was
tragi comic.
Alfred Schoenl Icht and the Jade Buffalo
Gans: Another name comes to my mind— Alfred Schoenl I cht. He was the owner
of the oldest Dutch banking firm, Teixerla de Mattos. He was
respected as an international banker and a collector of Chinese art.
If
•
The banking connection with Schoenl icht goes back to Bert In, where I
simply saw him, but never exchanged any words. His business
activities were conducted by a colleague of mine. Ten or more years
later, I met him socially In New York. He addressed me with the
words, "Your colleague was a crook. But your reputation here is
good, and I believe we could become friends." And so it was.
He was only slightly Interested In coins, but brought friends
who became good customers. We got together socially, but I feel our
friendship is best proved by the following story.
In younger years, his firm was the leading one in a consortium
that built a railway somewhere In Southeast Asia. In digging for it,
they discovered a resting buffalo made of jade. He considered It the
pride of his collection.
Once, he had to go to Europe for a number of months. He brought
the buffalo to me for safekeeping purposes. He considered it
dangerously exposed In his own house, among his other treasures.
When he returned to New York, he said to me, "You can keep it for the
time being, since I know you enjoy it as I did for so many years."
96
Gans: After a year or so I returned It to him. He had moved to a new
apartment In New York, and it should be Included when the Schoenllcht
collection came on the market. His generosity was a noble act of
friendship.
Kenneth Richmond and the Connection with Colonel Dykman, Princess
Xenia, and Dr. Hermann Feith
Gans: Another pleasant customer in New York was Mr. Kenneth Richmondf
treasurer of the great department store, Abraham and Strauss, In
Brooklyn. "Each Greek coin was an art work" — words he repeated In
every conversation a thousand times. And he treated them also as art
works. His decorator staff made nice boxes to order for these coins.
He always said, "Art works must be In art works."
It was shortly before our move to Cal Ifornla that he told me the
following story. One day he had lunch with his firm's attorney, a
certain Colonel Dykman. He said, "While I was reaching in a breast
pocket, a coin fell on the table, and Mr. Dykman asked me, 'What is
It?' Then I told him about my Greek coins, my collection. Then he
told me about one of his clients, the Princess Xenla, the daughter of
the Grand Duke George Mlchallovlch [first cousin to Emperor Alexander
III], who was the uncle of the Tsar."
Before I continue with this story, I must interrupt and tell
another story. Earlier, I mentioned the name of Dr. Hermann Feith,
whom I met in New York City soon after our arrival. This Dr. Feith
was a well-known numismatist In Germany.
His specialty was coins of the Neuzei t per iod, begl nni ng w ith
the year 1600. He was a good raconteur and practically our daily
guest for lunch. He told us of a friendship with the Grand Duke
George Mlchailovlch of Russia, who had undoubtedly been the greatest
Russian numismatist, had built a numismatic museum for everything
having to do with Russian numismatics, and had written a work which
originally comprised twelve volumes — a thirteenth volume never got
to publication. The set showed every Russian coin, every Russian
uKaz [decree] connected with coinage, and it was considered the
master work of publications on this subject.
Continuing my story about Mr. Dykman, here again, fifteen years
later, the Princess Xenia told him that when her mother needed money,
they had removed all the gold and platinum coins from their
collection and had sold them by way of an auction In London.
97
Cans: She further told Dykman that the remaining sliver and copper coins
had been tremendously devalued In the sale, that they were estimated
as having a value of five or ten thousand dollars* and now the two
surviving daughters needed much more than this amount of money.
Dykman asked Mr. Richmond* "Do you think your friend Mr. Gans could
give us any adv ice?"
II
So all four of us had a very nice meeting—Princess Xenia, Mr.
Dykman. Mr. Richmond, and myself. In effect, the story was as I
explained above, with the exception that the collection was In two
giant cases and that there existed only the crudest Inventory. This
meant that the Inventory only noted that package number one contained
twenty rubles and thirty copper coins and so on, up to a thousand or
more packages. I explained that. In this form, no coins could be
sold. Coins have to be described exactly— for instance, one ruble
from the year so-and-so made at that-and-that mint, and described
under number so-and-so In the father's catalog, of which Xenla still
had eleven or twelve volumes. So the first job would be to produce a
complete and correct catalog, and then to find a customer for the
whole collection. Without a catalog the whole collection was only an
accumulation of metal.
Fortunately, my wife was Russian, and I considered producing
the necessary catalog. But It was a tremendous job, and I could not
say how much time would be consumed. That was it.
Huth: Did you make the catalog?
Gans: No.
Cataloging and Sale of the Grand Duke George Mlchailov Ich's Great
Russian Coin and Medals Col I ect ion— For Princess Xenia
Gans: I then moved to Cal ifornia, and Mr. Richmond visited me here or
called me, I've forgotten the details, but the essential points were
the following: Xenla's cousin advised her that an obscure coin
dealer In California would not be Interested In such things. "You
should go to the leading art firm In New York, the Wildensteln
Gallery." So Xenia saw the manager of the gallery, who only smiled:
"We only sell paintings of the great masters — nothing else. The
greatest numismatic dealer fortunately lives in New York. Ask him.
He is Dr. Jacob Hirsch, who lives in the Windsor Hotel on 54th
Street."
98
Cans: Princess Xenla went to Hlrsch, who smiled and said» "I know a little
about classical Greek or Roman coins, but I don't touch modern coins.
I know only one coin dealer who might undertake the job. You must
ask him. He is the only one whom I could recommend. Unfortunately,
he just moved to Cal ifornia. But maybe you can get in touch with
him. That is a certain Mr. Edward Cans." Llaughter] So the whole
thing came back to me* Colonel Dykman asked me to come back to New
York to make the final arrangements* which I did* and in a few hours
everything was settled.
A couple of weeks later, two giant boxes weighing perhaps a
thousand pounds were stored In my garage* and I had a headache over
how to start the job. In these new Berkeley surroundings were two
people who were supposed to know Russian coins. One was a
professional* rather unpleasant person who wanted payment for each
item. The other was an enthusiastic collector of Russian coins* who
had spent two decades in the Caribbean with his father, who had been
a teacher and a leading patent lawyer for one of the big oil
companies. He was selected. It was for him a work of love* and I
soon became known as the expert for Russian coins. Later, my friend*
a certain Mr. Todorovic, was pleased that he was able to pick up some
of these coins at original prices. After two years the catalog was
finished. Each coin was correctly described. And through the Grand
Duke's notes* we had learned which was rare and which was common.
I bel leve that each rare coin was represented in the catalog. I
have spoken about coins; there were some ten thousand of them. But
there were also medals* five thousand medals. There was practically
no printed material available about Russian medals, neither in
Russian nor in any other language. So my wife and I spent almost
every evening for a year writing a first draft about the five
thousand medals. It includes every necessary detail. With it
another numismatist would be able to put them in the right order.
Finding an Appropriate Buyer for the Medals, in 1957
Gans: The new job was to sell the medals. I decided they should belong to
the American Numismatic Association. I went to New York to talk to
the president. In my mind* I thought of a price of $125.000 to
$150,000. The president, whose name I don't recall, talked it over
with the trustees, who considered the figure exaggerated and offered
fifty thousand, which I considered extremely low.
II
99
Gans: The second should-be owner, In my mind, was the Smithsonian
Institution, whose curator was a good friend of mine, and who agreed
with me. He spoke with the secretary of the Smithsonian Institution,
a Mr. Carmlchael, who gave me a wonderful letter expressing the great
Importance of making the Smithsonian Institution the owner of this
unique col lection.
With this Impressive letter, I went to New York and was
Introduced to the people at the Ford Foundation, whose first reaction
was very understanding. This was the great ma I heur [misfortune]. At
this time the Ford Foundation had never given a contribution to a
museum. Unfortunately, from now on the matter became a business
affair, and I must admit that I am not a good businessman. I may be
a good buyer, but I am certainly a poor seller. I asked my friend,
Abe Kosoff, In Palm Springs, for his help. He In turn found his
friend, Saul Kaplan, In Cincinnati, who was w 1 1 I Ing to form a
consortium for the purchase of the collection.
The deal was closed In CIncInattI, and later on the collection
found Its place with a member of the Du Pont family, and It became,
In the end, a gift to the Smithsonian Institution. I believe I had a
little Influence In this last transaction.
Huth: What year was this?
Gans: About 1957.
I could never forget the bl Indness of the approach at that time
of the ANS, who had the first chance. I also had the feeling It
would not have been the case If Mr. Newell were still alive. I was
able to render a great service to Princess Xenla and her sister, and
their gratitude was expressed In a nice letter they sent me. Mr.
Richmond gave up his collecting for reasons of his own. But he
visited with me once In Cal Ifornla.
Gifts of Appreciation to the American Numismatic Society (ANS)
and President Franklin D. Roosevelt
Gans: At about this same time I wanted to express my feelings by making a
gift to the ANS In memory of Mr. Edgar T. Newell. I gave the
organization a unique gold wreath with the Impression of the Roman
emperor, Gordlanus III. There are only one or two other such gold
wreaths In existence, In the Hermitage In St. Petersburg (Leningrad).
This honor that I expressed for Mr. Newell made me a benefactor of
the ANS.
100
Cans: Since I am speaking of gifts* I remember anurner gift which I took
the liberty of offering to President Roosevelt, expressing my
thankfulness for becoming a citizen of this country. It was Intended
as a gift from my collection of gold jewelry. Of course* the
president himself could not make the selection but he sent his
cousin. His choice was a so-called bul la. which was generally given
to Roman aristocrats when they reached a cenaln age. The piece Is
now on exhibit In his library at Hyde Park.
Friendship with Writer Louis Zara
Gans: Naturally, many close relationships were formed over the years, but
one which still exists today and which Is considered close by both
parties Is a friendship with Louis Zara. He Is a well-known writer,
and a man Interested In everything and always helpful In every way.
When I lived close to him It was Interesting To discuss problems with
him. and he always found a solution.
it
Huth: He sounds like a nice friend to have. Do you still see him
sometimes?
Gans: Yes. He cal Is me from New York to ask me how I am and so on. He
was a coilecior of coins but he gave that up —
Huth: What kinds of coins did he collect?
Gans: He was a collecror of ancient coins, and he once served as a trustee
for the ANS. He was a great traveler and always open to anything
new.
[ Interruption]
101
Remembering a Thirtieth Birthday Gift from Paula: The Lapis Lazuli
"Gans" Ring
Cans: On my thirtieth birthday my [first] wife* Paula* presented me with a
ring* It was made In Germany by a certain Professor Lowenthal, from
Prague* a famous sculptor who had worked In Germany for* among
orners* the Krupp family. Later* when he moved to England* he made
the first medal for Winston Churchill. The stone In the ring my wife
gave me was a lapis lazuli with an engraved standing goose — our
family's coat of arms. I could wear It as long as my arthritis
permitted It. Then my [second] wife wore It* until her passing.
Huth: What year was that?
Gans: That was In 1979. My daughter Lydla asked me to let It be worn now
by her only son* who In turn has also adopted our family's name and
goes under the name of Gregory J. Gans Moore.
Speaking of Gans* It means "goose." In my bank I was known as
the "blue bird" — the "blue bird" from the famous Maeterllnk play.
Huth: Professor Amyx told me you have a sculpture of a goose In your front
yard* but I couldn't find It.
Gans: I w 1 1 I show you.
Unchanging Life Philosophy and Business Style
[Interview 9: November .50, 1983JII
Gans: Ail my life I loved everything small. In my banking firm In Berlin I
had three employees, and when I established Numismatic Fine Arts In
this country* I was my own office boy* typist, buyer, and seller. My
only and also very Important helper was my wife. We both liked to
work, to share every.nlng, and we both preferred to sleep well and
have modest meals. In the same sense — It may sound ridiculous but It
Is perfectly true — In those thirty years that I was In business In
Numismatic Fine Arts, I never appi led for and never used a bank
loan.
102
Affiliation with the International Association of Professional
Nun! smatlsts (IAPN)
Gans: At some point. I have to Insert an event that touched the whole coin
business and which* In my way of Thinking* affected me considerably
at a later time. It must have been In the early 1950's that a few
farslghted colleagues In Europe conceived the Idea of founding the
International Association of Professional Numismatists (IAPN).
Wnatever the actual purpose was at rne moment* this action became of
the greatest Importance In the course of the following decades. A
serious and comprehensive code was created and In the course of years*
expanded* which demanded the highest qualities In every respect from
its members.
If I remember correctly* the earliest activities of the IAPN
were limited to Europe* but soon American colleagues were asked to
join. Natural ly the qual If Icatlons required by the bylaws were val Id
worldwide. It became customary That rne president was a European*
and the vice president was a U.S. citizen. I occupied this latter
position at a rather early date* for the usual term — two years.
Huth: Do you remember when that was?
Gans: It was In the early lySOs.
•
With one stroke* two classes of coin dealers were created. I
feel I can say that In the circle of art and science* the
International Association of Professional Numismatists (IAPN)
occupies Its proper place. Art and science are the two
qualifications for the IAPN. In the other classes are the small
dealers who deal with American coins* such as nickels* dimes* and
other coins.
I gave up my membership when I liquidated my last coin* but a
few years later my colleagues made me a permanent corresponding
member, and I feel honored to belong again to the IAPN.
103
X TRAVEL, NEW AND RENEWED FRIENDSHIPS, AND THE MOVE FROM COIN TO
SEAL COLLECTING: 1958 TO 1971
The European Adventures, Israel, and Attendance at an International
Association of Professional Numismatists' Meeting, 1958 and 1961
Gans: The closing of the Russian coin and medal affair for Princess Xenla
opened up the natural question, what to do now? And we decided to
fulfill a dream we had for years and years. After my wife's surgery
In 1957, we went to Europe for five months In Iy58 to attend a meeting
of the IAPN, which took place In Vienna.
Our first stop was Paris, where we visited my brother's family
for the first time In twenty years. He had already passed away In
1938. From mere we went to Vienna. I had known Vienna very little,
but I had a sentimental attachment to the city since It was the
birthplace of my mother.
it
Developing a Close Friendship with Dr. Robert E. Gobi, Israel Visit,
and Meeting Hans von Aulock
Gans: In another respect, Vienna became a city of great Importance for me,
because I made the acquaintance of Professor Dr. Robert E. Gobi, and
this acquaintance grew with the course of years. Out of this
acqual urance grew an Intimate true friendship tnat lasted to this
day. I've receteved handwritten letters of as much as sixteen pages
from him. And his interest was not only a professional one In coins
and art, It also extended Into drawing and painting, music, singing,
nature, etc.
104
Cans: We saw Israel and my wife's ramliy residing there. For the first
time we met Mr. Hans von Aulock In person. I have already mentioned
him several times. At this moment* I will mention only one event
that was of Importance at a later time. He showed us his mansion.
The living room on the short side comprised his Tremendous library,
and on the long side* maybe twenty coin cabinets housing his
Anatolian collection* which was probably the largest one In
existence. The German government financed a catalog which* at the
time* consisted of sixteen volumes. There were probably more later.
He showed my wife and me a number of artworks. Then he asked*
"Do you want to see my seals?" I said of course* "Yes." When I saw
them* the majority of the seals reminded me of what I had seen twenty
years earlier In the Newel I collection. When I asked him If he would
sell the seals he replied* "Yes*" and said he would let me know when
the time nad come.
My wife and I followed this with a cruise through the Greek
Isands* which Impressed us both. Our next stop was Germany* and then
England.
Huth: Your trip was over a period of several months?
Gans: I mixed up two trips. In 1961 we went again.
Canadian Travel* 1960 Sale of the George Bauer Collection,
and Personal Illness
Gans: From then on we decided to take life easier. We made several trips
through Canada* and several Illnesses reminded us of our age.
Huth: Did you do any collecting on that trip?
Gans: No.
The start of the 1960s seemed to Inaugurate a boom. Together
with a colleague of mine* I bought the collection of Mr. George J.
Bauer of Rochester* New York* which we put on sale In April* 1960.
George Bauer was a remnant of the few older real collectors* and the
coins were the best qua I Ity that he had saved throughout many years.
I believe he was wei I over eighty when this took place. I was blamed
for my high estimates* but nevertheless* the results were good*
Inasmuch as I had borrowed a number of real gems from my own
col lection.
105
Gans: The second part of the sale comprised the duplicates of the Dumbarton
Oaks collection, and that was the end. Another sickness forced me to
spend the end of the year In southern California.
Huth: Were you 1 1 I or was It your wife who was a I I Ing?
Gans: That was me.
The Rome Trip In 1961; Combined Meetings of the IAPN and the
International Numismatists Congress
Gans: An Invitation to attend the next meeting of the IAPN In Rome, which
was combined with the Congress of the International Numismatists,
tempted us too much, and In August of 1961 we flew to Rome, The
meetings of the congress were of great Interest, as well as the coin
shows In various museums.
The Vatican Coins
Gans: Of special Interest was our visit to the coin collection of the
Vatican, and I remember their charming dlrectoi — unfortunately I have
forgotten his name.
it
He asked us what we wanted to see, and we were able to admire
the fantastic Hadrians, Caesars and so on. I was especially pleased
when we went through this tremendous hal I, and passed a I Ittle table
on which I saw, en passant, perhaps twenty dlnare of the Cornelius
family. I told the director, "I see you have a beautiful selection
of the Cornelius coins." And then he laughed and said, "Yesterday
Charles Hersch was here and looked through our Corneliuses. These
twenty or so pieces are those that he has selected, and all are
unpublished." Charles Hersch Is a collector.
106
Huth: Is he related to the other HIrsch?
Gans: No, he Is H-s-r-s-c-h, not H-1-r-s-c-h. He was just a collector,
as I was or many others were, but his specialty was Roman coins.
Visit with the Ernst Nash Family
Gans: Another meeting was with my old friend, Ernst [Ernest] Nash, and his
wife Irene. Irene had watched our house three years earl ler while we
were In Europe for five months. And now we reciprocated with a
visit. This one took place In the hospital, where she suffered from
cancer, to which she succumbed a few months later. Her husband*
Ernst, who was also a friend of ours In New York, and who had married
her In the meantime, had been In the legal profession In Germany, was
a photographer In New York and later, In Rome, he became the
authority for what was left of classical Rome. He wrote a book, In
two volumes, that was pub I I shed by the German government In three
languages — Italian, English and German.
From Hobby to Investment Only; Coin Collecting In the 1960s and
1970s
[Interview 10: December 7, 1983]##
Gans: We have arrived to the events In the 1960s. It was a crucial time.
I was already In my mid-seventies, at times not In good health, and
the vision of my wife, who had always been a wonderful help to me,
reduced constantly until It finally reached practically zero.
Retrospectively, let us contemplate the coin market. When we
began, for the dealer's counterpart — it was a hobby. When a collector
could pay three dollars for an Alexander tetradrachm, It was a hobby.
And It remained so when the collector had to pay five dollars, or
even ten dollars. But where Is the limit? That Is a question I ask
myself almost dally. I have already mentioned that my principle
regarding Investments Is to collect only things of lasting value.
These two words, "lasting value," accompanied me throughout my life.
Naturally, for dally living, one needs money, and the time came to
consider when and how to separate art from money.
107
Gans: Before I continue, a few words about the coin market. To say It In a
few descriptive words: The market had always set "extremely fine"
(e.f.) for especially nice-looking and well-preserved Items, or
"fine" (f.) for less good-looking pieces. Naturally there were a lot
of other grades In between and beyond these two descriptions. Simply
said, the price difference between one and the other was, very
roughly, 100 percent. But, during the 1960s and 1970s, out of normal
movements of the market we encountered rising jumps — 1000 percent,
and occasional ly even much more. Such jumps became events which were
not too rare.
Huth: How could museums add to their collections when the prices were so
high?
Gans: They couldn't.
A good customer of mine — a Mr. Velay — could afford to go up to a
thousand, five thousand, or ten thousand dollars a coin. But only
one man, Mr. Hunt, has paid one million dollars for one coin. I
believe It was In 1978 that a coin sold for three hundred thousand
dollars. Earlier, I had bought a coin for two hundred or three
hundred dollars. Later, the same coin sold for a hundred and fifty
thousand dollars. That was two years ago.
Disappointing Experience with a Major European Dealer
Gans: From here on, I prefer to talk anonymously, leaving out the names of
the people Involved. There were several dealers In this country, and
also in Europe, who asked me for consignments. In certain cases It
meant that they simply couldn't afford to pay cash but would pay for
the coin immediately when It was sold.
I had stopped publishing catalogs and price lists, and I retted
on liquidation of my stock by this detoui — by using colleagues In
other places, such as Europe.
Throughout my whole activity as a professional coin dealer, I
had only pleasant experiences and feelings of friendship toward
colleagues. But twice I experienced disappointments that I must
at least mention, since every rose has a thorn and every business has
experienced disappointments. Maybe my account would not appear
believable. Here is one case.
108
Gans: A leading European dealer picked out four hundred coins from my
stock — natural ly, the best. We made a written agreement that he
could fix the price at his discretion, that I wanted to receive a
certain amount of money every year, and that he should start with the
sale of the most common pieces, leaving the gems to the end. But the
first piece sold was one of the gems.
it
I considered this a mistake and did not say a word. But It happened
again In the second and third years, and I was forced to demand my
coins back. For me It was a broken agreement, and a great
disappointment from one of the leading firms In the trade.
Huth: Do you want to give the name of the firm?
Gans: No.
But half of the coins were sold, and another colleague took over
the same agreement, with a slight variation, that being that the
coins could be sold only by way of auction. So the choice of the
coins to be put on auction had to correspond with our agreement.
This worked fine, and I still owe my thanks for the gentlemanlike
handling of this. Naturally, In an auction sale, a few coins always
remain unsold, and I will add another story about this later.
Questionable Activity bv an Unnamed American Dealer
Gans: As I mentioned before, the value of a coin depends upon Its condition.
These two European dealers (In the story I have just reported) had
naturally selected the best. But In my stock there were a great
number of less fine specimens that still were desirable for the
average trader. Several American dealers had consignments from me
that were settled in a correct way. There was one dealer who also
settled correctly, whom I liked* and to whom I gave certain
advantages. He was young, enterprising, and knowledgeable — all
qualities I cherished. He was eager to get business from me. Once
In a while, the thought went through my brain as to whether I should
offer him a limited partnership. Strangely enough, neither my wife
nor customers to whom I had recommended him liked him. But I
continued helping him, because consignments of good merchandise,
without Investing money, is a desirable thing. My consignments to
him were less successful than my European experiences. The time came
when, with his help, I could sell some of my coins which, to my mind,
had a high value. In fact, they reached prices three times as high
as he accounted for. At that time, there were price differences In
109
Cans: the leading markets In Europe and America* so I accepted his
accounting. But my Inner feeling towards him became cooler. He
traveled regularly to Europe and to England to attend the regular
auction sales In London. At this tlme» I was already Interested In
seals* and I gave him Instructions to buy certain Items* Including a
particular seal, at a forthcoming sale In London. It was a shock for
me when I detected something that I can at least describe as an
Incorrectness. The London auctioneers print realized prices with the
addition of the name of the buyer. I found his name next to the
price paid for the seal, but the seal was not del Ivered to me
according to my order. He had kept It for himself, and probably sold
It to somebody else. I never saw this man again. I felt a great
disappointment, but that was It.
Unauthorized Sale of the Edward Gans Firm Name: Numismatic Fine
Arts"
Gans: When I gave my coin consignments to this unnamed American dealer, I
allowed him to tell the source of the coins, which made It easier for
him to sell them. It Is always easier when the origin Is well-
established as a renowned firm. In one case, he must have sold a coin
together with the sale of the name, "Numismatic Fine Arts." I was
not Informed about that. In a piece of printed matter, years later,
I saw that, al I of a sudden, there were two Numismatic Fine Arts. I
never was asked for a permit. It was a great surprise. What should
I do? I always hated Involvement In legal questions. Many years
ago, I had to engage In two legal matters concerning the equivalent
of the IRS [Internal Revenue Service] but none In this country.
Had my erstwhile partner made a registration of my firm's name?
All these questions went through my head. And In addition, should I,
as an octogenarian, start a lawsuit over such a ridiculous affair?
It had meant, for me at least, a no money affair, and as It was so
often In my life, fate managed something without my free will, which
eventual ly turned out to the good of al I parties. Ail fond, It was a
highly unimportant affair, not worth any headache.
1 10
Fair Dealing hy the New Numismatic Fine Arts
II
Gans: By chance* there came an opportunity for me to evaluate the way of
doing business by the new owner of Numismatic Fine Arts. As I
mentioned before* a few coins remained unsold from the Swiss
consignment mentioned above. I gave these altogether fifty coins to
the other Numismatic Fine Arts* and their sale was handled In the
fairest possible way. During my discussions with the present
president of Numismatic Fine Arts* my jewelry collection was
mentioned* and also this oral history project. Now I am talking
about the Interests of the sister firm of Numismatic Fine Arts*
called Summa Gal lery. And also In this respect everything was done
In a fair and correct way.
Are there two Numismatic Fine Arts — mother and daughter — or two
sisters? This Is a question which I confidently expect will be
settled in a friendly way.
More on the Gift of the Numismatic Library to UCLA
Gans: There Is another story. Speaking of the llquldaton of my coin stock,
there is another element of great importance to me and that was close
to my heart — my numismatic library* which I believe was the largest
one In private hands. It was my desire to see It In the hands of
U.C. Berkeley, but this campus was of the opinion that their
collection of numismatic literature was sufficient* while there was a
dearth at other campuses.
I got acquainted with Professor Anastos* professor of Byzantine
art at the University of California at Los Angeles* who like Julius
Caesar* came* saw* and acquired the whole library for UCLA.
Huth: Did they catalog that library as a separate collection?
Gans: No, but at least they felt that they should do an "ex llbrls"
notification In all the books that came from me. Whether that will
be done* I don't know.*
Interruption: to wait for the arrival of a Channel 2 videotaping
crew that recorded a portion of the Interview. The videotaping was
part of a series of television programs on the elderly. As of the
date of publication of this oral history, this videotaped segment has
not been televised.
111
Acquiring Significant Seals from Hans von Aulock In Istanbul/
and Professor Edith Porada's Six-Year Evaluation of the
Col lection. 1961 To 1968
Cans: Now I come to my first visit to my friend* Mr. Hans von Aulock* In
1961. I already mentioned him two or three Interviews ago, but I
purposeful ly left out one very Important event, because It comes at
the end of my story about my coin collection, and we have now reached
the end. It was In 1961 that I visited him In Istanbul for the first
time. As I mentioned, he was a representative of one of the largest
German banks, searching for everything — In art, animals, and
whatever. He was a charming host. Naturally our mutual Interest was
In coins, and he started to show me his coins. He had about twenty
thousand Anatolian coins. His collection Is the largest In
existence, and the German government paid for writing the catalog of
about twenty volumes (still more will be published). He showed me
other objects, and finally he also showed me a collection of seals.
Seals always had a certain attraction for me. These were some
that I had never seen before, so I took the courage to ask him,
"Would you ever be likely to sell the seals?" If we had been
speaking about coins, I would never have dared to say a word. But
seals — It was an outside object for him, so he very generously said,
"Yes, I might. Are you Interested?" I said, "Certainly I'm
Interested." He said, "Okay, I will give you the privilege, If I
ever sel I the seal s, I w 1 1 I let you know, and you will be the first
to hear about it." Then we had a wonderful dinner. The ambassador
from Germany — everybody was there.
One year later, In 1962, when I came back to Istanbul I called
him up, was his guest, and just by chance I asked him, 'How about the
seals?" "Oh my God," he replied, "I had completely forgotten you and
my promise. I sold them this January. I'm so embarrassed. How can
I make it up to you?" Then he went around In his real ly tremendous
house, and all of a sudden I heard, 'Uurrahl Hurrahl I have to show
you!" He showed me to a cabinet full of seals, and he said, "You can
have these* You can pay me any price you want — five dollars apiece.
It doesn't matter. I don't care." So I acquired about a hundred and
fifty seals that seemed to be both valuable and Interesting. He got
a few cigar boxes, put the seals In them, and that was It. I brought
them back to Berkeley, and here at this place, a year later,
Professor Edith Porada visited me.
Now I must tel I you a few words about Edith Porada. Edith
Porada was an old friend of mine. At that time she was a professor
at Columbia University, and she was generally considered the greatest
authority on the art of Persia, on seals, and for everything Persian.
112
Gans: She had written a book— I think it was published In 1950—
The Corpus of Near Eastern Seals: An American Collection. Th I s f I rst
volume was on J. P. Morgan's collection of cylinder seals. It's the
very famous book. She often said* "In coming years I will write a
next volume." That time never arrived.
By chance she visited me. and I told her what happened with von
Aulock, whom of course she knew very well. She said* "Don't ever
underestimate what you bought here. You bought the finest seals that
have ever been in a European collection. They are the earliest.
They go back to the fifth mlllenium B.C. [4500 B.C.L And I'll write
the second volume; this time on these seals. Would you allow me to
publ Ish them?"
Of course* I said yes. That was in the year 1962. And believe
it or not, I got them back In 1968. It took her six years to write
the draft about these approximately one hundred fifty seals for her
forthcoming book.
Huth: Could you tell me something about the seals — how old they were and
where they came from?
Gans: That was what she did In her draft volume. She described the seals.
And now I can tell you about it.
The first seal could be dated between around 500 B.C. and 2500
B.C. — before Christ. And then came a number of very, very
Interesting Items from the third mil lenlum, second mil lenlum and
ending with a few pieces from the earliest centuries A.D.
Huth: So they were all very old seals.
Gans: Yes. They were almost all stone seals, and a few were metal seals
of all sizes, which made the collection extremely Interesting.
Edith was always being asked, "Where Is your second volume?
We're waiting for it. We need It." And a few years ago she got the
gold medal from the Archeological Institute here as the most
knowledgeable person In the field. She said, "I know that you're all
bothering me to write the second volume. But give me a few more
years. I can tell you this much — the draft Is already finished, and
I have started a revision. It will take a few years more before it
comes out."
Huth: Is she doing a study of the history of these seals?
Gans: She Is taking all the seals from my collection, her collection, and
from a few other sources that belong In these time periods — of
between four or five thousand years. I think the earliest date Is
somewhere between 4000 to 5000 B.C.
1 13
Acqulrlny Professor Grosse's Oriental Seals and Jade Objects from
Tlkotln In the Early 1970s, and Na Chl-Llanq's Description
Gans: Now that I had the seals and knew what they were* I became a fool In
collecting seals. One day* about 1970, the last day of the year— I
heard from my friend, Felix Tlkotln, an old Berlin friend, who at
that time had to dispose of the collection of a Professor Grosse, In
Freiburg, Germany. Before the First World War, from 1907 to 1912,
Grosse had I Ived In Japan. He had married a Japanese girl and had
accumulated a collection of everything — paintings, ceramics, seals,
jade, whatever objects of Oriental art. Then came the war. A few
years later this Professor Grosse died, and the widow entrusted my
friend, Tlkotln, with the sale of the great things, some of which we
purchased, and they went Into our small house. He was asked to get
rid of all the paintings, scrolls and so on. That's when and how I
heard the name Grosse. At that time, most of these Oriental pieces
were out of my line. Now Tlkotln told me, "You know, Gans, just
before I left, Grosse's daughter came to me. She wants to move
again. And there Is a little collection of seals and small pieces of
jade. Do you want them?"
I only cried, "Yes. I want them. Send them." I didn't ask the
price. "I'll buy every seal." So I got a collection of Japanese
seals.
Next came a disappointment. Where were the notes about the seals
from Mr. Grosse? Who could read Chinese, Japanese? Tlkotln said, "I
will ask Grosse's daughter for them, but I am afraid everything was
lost during the war." And It was lost. I'll have more to say about
the Grosse collection later.
Now comes another unusual story. I have a cousin here In San
Francisco whom I visited sometimes, and who just by chance mentioned,
"I got a letter from my nephew from Taiwan." It occurred to me that,
at the house of another friend of mine, I had seen a catalog of a
collection of Chinese seals — a description of some thirty or forty
pieces — written by a Chinese man, and I read the bibliography. In
the bibliography the name of the author, Na Chi-LIang (a wonderful
Chinese name) was mentioned. He was the curator of the Taiwan
Museum. Tlkotln said, 'Now, do me a favor. Forward a letter from me
to your cousin. I don't know your cousin, but I know his father was
a famous professor In Germany. I'm sure he will do me a favor If you
back me up."
1 14
Gans: So I wrote him, "Dear Unknown Cousin: Please be so good as to
visit the Taiwan Museum and try to find out what they know about Mr.
Na Chi-LIang."
Promptly, I got a letter stating, "I was at the museum. Mr Na
Chl-LIang Is more or less the curator of our museum, and he knows
everything. I talked to him. He will help you, but not now, because
he has been Invited to write the catalog for the great Chinese
collection In Minneapolis. He w 1 1 I be there at the end of August,
and he will get In contact with you."
That happened after every so-called Chinese authority In this
country was a failure. Then I got an answer for one seal every six
months.
I don't want to bother you with all the details. Mr. Na Chi-
LIang got my collection of altogether seventy or eighty Oriental
seals, and he sat down and described them In Chinese and in poor
Chinese-English. What should I do now? I had a catalog and the
pieces were described. Fantastic pieces. They were all collected
before the First World War, and they were authenticated by an
auhority. He had taste and he knew what to write. But the language
he was using was important.
II
So next came the third event. Before his return from Minneapol Is to
Taiwan, Mr. Na Chl-LIang was sitting on this chair [Edward Gans'
chair], Mr. Max Knight was sitting on that chair [another of Mr.
Gans' chairs], and they translated Chinese-English Into American-
English. So I now have a perfect catalog for the perfect collection.
Everything that happened, as I showed you with these two examples,
were miracles. Everything came to me. I was not chasing any of
these things. But where any help was necessary, It came to me.
Miracle Acquisitions of Seals from England. Thailand. Mexico and
Ecuador Lead to the Concept of Comparative Study of Seals-
Si dl I I Qaraohv
Gans: I got my English seal from London. That^s the finest seal from their
historical period under Rome. And, only recently, there was a seal I
acquired from a new culture found In Thailand, in the northern part
of Thailand, and evidently it Is older than the Chinese culture.
It's estimated it dates from between 1500 and 2500 B.C. It was only
1 15
Gans: found five or ten years ago, and nobody knows anything about It. A
friend of mine at the museum In Thailand collects these things. Ifs
all a miracle. The friend Is Dr. Helnzer, who has lived In Thailand*
who has collected Thai I and! sh art, who visited with a peasant there,
and she bought a lot of artifacts from that peasant. She had a very
bad toothache when she was here. She needed a lot of money, and she
offered me two seals from the collection from Thailand. So I bought
two.
I've got a book from a friend connected with the museum In
Milwaukee — I am a friend of one of the trustees, who Is a coin
col lector, who Introduced me to one of the curators, who was a Dr.
Bulraly, who Is only Interested In Latin American art. We
Immediately were good friends. I saw his Mexican seals, and I asked
him, "Where can I get Mexican seals?" He said, "I won't give you my
sources, but when I go to New York* I will make arrangements with a
firm that deals with these things and they will send you a
consignment. There you can buy seals." Then comes another wonder.
Later, he sent the seals and I bought them. So I have a few Mexican
seals.
Now, In connection with this comes the other thing: A jeweler
dealing In gold In Mexico was supposed to buy these. I don't want to
say his name. He Is supposed to be the greatest collector of Mexican
art, from all over that country. Dr. Bulraly had fourteen thousand
Items for sale, and the jeweler took everything except the seals.
Since we are friends, It was a courtesy gesture for him to send me
the seal s.
Now, I will come back to the jewelry collection In Milwaukee, and
something that happened just before Dr. Bulraly died. He wrote me a
nice letter: "If you are Interested In seals, we've got something
new — seals from Ecuador. When you pay for all of the seals In the
lot, we'll share them." So I got seals from Ecuador.
Huth: Will you please tell me what some of these seals were used for?
Gans: Yes. There are varied uses. I have a friend, Dr. Wolfgang Helmpel.
Huth: Yes. He Is a member of the Illustrious advisory group for this oral
h I story .
Gans: Yes. We were sitting together, as you and I are sitting here, and he
saw all of these seals. He said, "They are of great Interest to me.
Generally, my Interests are the very early ones you mentioned first,
but as you know, I'm Interested In everything." So we said together,
'1_et us write a book or a catalog — Comparat I ve S I g 11 I ography." We
will compare a seal that Is made In Mexico w I th a seal In Persia.
And for what purpose? On one seal Is printed In Greek letters, "It's
good for bel ly ache." And In Tibet, "It's good for your heart." Is
that a medicine for the heart? Perhaps that's how they were used.
1 16
Beginning a Friendly Long Term Relationship with the University of
California at Berkeley's Department of Near Eastern Studies
Gans: The more I studied these things* the more I used the help of U.C.
Berkeley's Department of Near Eastern Studies. All of the members of
the department are so charming* so helpful In every respect* that I
decided that the whole collection should eventually go to the
University here In Berkeley. They will write a catalog* so my name
will be perpetuated for some years. And that^s all I want. I don't
need the money.
Huth: WIN your seals be used for future studies?
Gans: Only for their study. There Is a special room for them. The seals
are already In four big cabinets at the University In room 770. The
case Is available only to Dr. Helmpel and to me. We both go out and
try to find new seal sources, and many* many students who study them
make their descriptions about them on file cards* so each and every
seal Is described. It reminds me of my quite* quite* quite earlier
experience* when students came to me with coins. They bought a coin
for five dollars* and I told them* "You pay five dollars here* but
four dollars Is for the label* and one dollar Is for the coin." The
science — that Is what counts.
1 17
XI RARE COINS SOLD, SEALS ACQUIRED, UNUSUAL FRIENDS AND EVENTS:
1951 TO 1978
[Interview 11: December 14, 1983]*!
Salman Schocken's Acquisition of a Rare Greek Coin, His Berkeley
Vlslt» and the Introduction to Norman Davis
Gans: My thoughts wander back to New York, and a rather Important event. I
received a telephone call from a Mr. Salman Schocken, who asked
whether he could see my coins. We made a date to meet a few weeks
before my move to Berkeley In 1951. Mr. Schocken was a very well-
known wealthy person, and I regretted only that my acquaintance with
him started at the moment I was leaving New York.
Among my coin stock was only one which excited his curiosity,
and which, Indeed, was not only a very Interesting Greek coin, but
also a particularly well-preserved and beautiful one. It was a
tetradrachm of Demetrlos Pol lorcetes [the city destroyer], King of
Macedon, 337 to 283 B.C., which, on the reverse side, had the relief
of Nike blowing a horn and standing on a ship's prow. It was
general ly assumed that the coin was a copy of the famous bronze
statue In the Louvre, called the Nike of Samothrace, or conversely,
that the statue was a copy of the coin. I bought this coin many
years before. I sold It three times and repurchased It, always at
advancing prices. Mr. Schocken was a careful man, and I, unknown to
him, showed the specimen to Dr. HIrsch, who not only confirmed Its
authenticity, but praised It as the finest specimen he had ever seen.
When closing the final deal, we had al ready become a I Ittl e bit more
familiar, and Mr. Schocken told me that he loved coins and that he
always carried a few with him. Out of his pocket he pul led a I ittle
leather and velvet box containing perhaps a dozen coins, In the
center of which was the famous dekadrachm made by the master
medalist, KIMON. On the reverse It showed the victorious quadriga,
and below the exergual line were the group of weapons that
constituted the prize for the victor In the Olympic Games. The
remarkable thing was that the letters "KIMON" were easily legible on
the exergual I I ne.
1 18
Gans: That was already a farewell, and I never expected to hear from Mr.
Schocken again. I left for Berkeley a few weeks later, and suddenly
two or three months later, I received a long distance call from
Schocken telling me that he was on a visit with his brother In
Seattle. There he had met an old friend, a certain Mr. Norman Davis
who, he said, was probably the brightest man he'd ever met In his
I Ife.
Among other things, Mr. Davis was (and Is) a coin collector.
Mr. Schocken said I should meet him and that he might become a good
customer. The Introduction was made, and a few weeks later during a
visit in San Francisco, Mr. Davis met with me and a connection was
established. In the thirty years since then, this business
connection became a slowly developing, deep-hearted friendship.
I will mention Norman Davis1 name- In the future several times,
but now let me only mention that he has a comprehensive collection of
exclusively Greek coins, which he gave to the museum in Seattle,
whose vice president he became.
In the museum Is a large room filled with a number of other
antiquities which constituted his gifts to the museum. In other
rooms were perhaps one hundred paintings, graphic works, etc., that
he donated to the museum.
Mr. Davis was not only a great collector, but he also studied
his coins and wrote two books on this topic. These were praised by
serious numismatists, and they experienced the rare fate of being
reprinted after the first edition.
His coin collection, containing a number of great rarities, was
described in a volume published by the American Numismatic Society
(ANS). In 1962 he became the art director of the Seattle World's
Fair. For a simple merchant who had begun his career In England and
moved to the United States In 1958, this was quite an accompl ishment.
One other thing I would like to mention is that when he traveled In
Greece, he did not travel as many people do, but rented a car and
guide, and he followed the tracks of Alexander the Great and his army
I nto Persia.
I knew of the connection between Davis and Schocken, so I
recently asked Mr. Davis to write a letter with a few details about
Schocken. I'm asking the editor of this oral history to reprint the
letter and to feel free to edit It or not use It.*
See Appendix.
1 19
Gans: Mr. Davis wrote at least five more books about his activities and
thoughts of a more personal nature. Schocken was also a poet and
painted when the whim touched him.
Keeping Business Going After Age Seventy; Life Challenges and
Problems Liquidating Coins
Huth : Now> will you please talk about your recollections of the 1960s and
1970s* and about your growing Interest In seals* while liquidating
your coin collection.
Gans: Now we are In the 1960s and 1970s. Neither my wife nor myself were
In the robust health that we enjoyed In younger years. When one Is
In his seventies one thinks of the business future* particularly
when one has a wife who Is twelve years younger. There were the very
fine coins from Switzerland that I already talked about. There were
a large number of other coins — decent, but not extraordinary — and the
stock of Numismatic Fine Arts which had to be liquidated In the
markets. I purposefully say markets In plural. It might have been
possible that the markets In Europe were different from the American
markets. I always dreamt of finding a successor for my Numismatic
Fine Arts, but I explained earl ler what happened to this dream.
I must honestly confess that my memories toward more recent
times are less vivid and more awake as to the earlier years of my
life. One thing Is sure* that my Interest in those more recent
periods tended more toward purchases at London auction sales in seals
than in the liquidation of coins anywhere In the world.
Working with Professor Wolfgang Helmpel on the Comparative Study of
Seals» and More on the Second Numismatic Fine Arts
Gans: Independent of other things was the controversy between museums and
learning Institutions. This had an Influence on the price
development of coins. With advancing age I got tired* and leaned
toward the scientific aspects of collecting. I had the great fortune
to find In Professor Wolfgang Helmpel an Ideal study companion whose
opinions on the subject paralleled my own. As I said earlier* It was
at some point In our discussions that we mutually fell upon the Idea
120
Cans: of pursuing "comparative slgl I lography." That provided a new task
for me. This Idea came naturally* because there was good study
material In the von Aulock collection* which contained specimens
dated between 4500 B.C. and 700 A.D.
There was a void to be filled In the Mesopotamlan era and besides*
specimens from the whole world stand open for study. At that time we
had only the von Aulock collection* but from now on I could look for
seals from other countries and periods. I daresay that luck was on
my side* and I was able to acquire other material which brought us
closer to our goal of acquiring a complete collection.
In the course of approximately ten years I collected In the
neighborhood of a thousand seals. This Is a respectable number*
considering the difficulty In getting valuable material from other
countries and periods.
In the fol lowing lines* I will report what happened to the
second Numismatic Fine Arts. But first let me close with what I have
to say about coins. Thousands were liquidated* but I still have six
coins In my possession. I was essentially out of the coin business
when I got a circular saying that somewhere a new business using the
name Numismatic Fine Arts had appeared.
As I said earlier, legal affairs are entirely alien to me, and I
was not In the mood to approach this matter with the aid of a lawyer.
In fact* at the time* the use of my business name had no meaning to
me. When two Numismatic Fine Arts can exist* why not a third or
more? In fact* similar feelings might have prevailed on the other
side, because soon thereafter I received complimentary copies of
their catalog, nicely bound and printed* from the other Numismatic
FI ne Arts.
I tried the sale of a small group of coins* as mentioned above,
that was handled In a completely fair way from the affiliated firm,
the Summa Galleries. Moreover* my antique jewelry collection was
offered In an auction sale In the finest possible way on September
18, 1981. Apparently this new Numismatic Fine Arts has increasingly
expanded as a business. Is the Summa Gallery at the same location,
and associated with Numismatic Fine Arts, growing In the same way?
While I feel a kinship with these two enterprises, I have been
Inclined toward the scientific aspects of collecting with the
express notion of mutual work with the University of California — at
the moment specializing In seals.
121
More on Felix Tlkotln's Visit, and Acquiring and Cataloging Professor
Grosse's Seal Collection, about 1970
ft
Gans: Now I would I Ike to say a few more words about my friend* Pel Ix
TIkotln. Over the years* I was only a friend and onlooker* and I
enjoyed Tlkotln's successes In his businesses. Mr. TIkotIn* as a
specialist on Japan* enjoys a world reputation. He founded the Japan
Museum In Haifa and lives now In Switzerland — retired* as he says*
but stll I a I Ittle bit active.
As I said* It may have been ten or fifteen years ago that I got
a call from him on a New Year's Eve. He said that he was In
California just for a day and would like to see me. I told him that
we were celebrating an anniversary that night and that he should come*
which he did. He mentioned that he had recently met Professor
Grosse's only daughter who wanted to sell the seals and jade objects.
I asked that she send everything Immediately* and said that I'd buy
everything. He sent the collection.
Professor Grosse was one of the best experts In Oriental art.
To acquire a collection of one hundred Oriental seals* brought
together by an expert while living five years In China and Japan was
a great case of luck. But equally so was the following story.
More on the Connection with Na Chi-Liang. Talwan» for Cataloging the
Grosse Collection
Gans: As I said earlier* all documenting papers prepared by Professor
Grosse were lost* and I was faced with the question: What to do with
Oriental objects when you cannot describe them* and you cannot read
the language? I also told you that I visited a cousin of mine one
day In San Francisco* who told me she had just received a letter from
a nephew In Taiwan. So I wrote a letter to my cousin's nephew, who
got In touch with Mr. Na Chi-Liang, and he wrote the catalog.
122
Friendship with Fred Stress, and Acquisition of Valuable Egyptian.
Mexican* Guatemalan. Ecuadorian. Cretan, Persian and Indian Seals
Gans: Another friend of mine is Fred Stress* a chemist born In Egypt. He
worked for years for the Shell OH Company, and In more recent years
he has worked at the University of California's Lawrence [LIvermore]
Laboratory. When he arranged to visit his parents In Egypt, I asked
for him to look for some Egyptian seals. He knew one of the foremost
collectors, and when he went to visit him, he learned that he had
died a short while before, and that his widow wanted to sell the
collection. So a second collection was acquired easily, and what Is
more Important, material of authenticated genuineness.
Another old acquaintance lives In Mexico. He Is supposed to be
the greatest collector of Mexican art; I believe his collection now
numbers about forty thousand pieces. He specializes In vases,
figures, tiles, and similar objects, but he Is not Interested In
seals. So It Is natural that he would arrange to have his friend
[Mr. Gans] acquire these seals. Professor Helzer from U.C. asked the
Mexican friend to describe the seals. My friend, Fred Stress, who
was also a friend of Professor Helzer, extended his work and field to
Mexico. So I have two authorities for the correct descriptions of
the Mexican seals*
ft
In looking In other South American countries for seals, I found only
specimens from Guatemala and Ecuador. At the moment It appears
Improbable that seals were used In other South American countries,
but that Is still open to speculation.
At a special sale of Cretan seals I was able to acquire some
twenty specimens, Including one of the rare obsidian seals which have
no pattern. It Is practically Impossible for me to go out and get
Greek, Roman, and Etruscan seals now. I have a small number,
Including a beautiful one from the collection of Sir Otto Evans, but
the prices for these classical seals were affected by the rise In
prices for Greek and Roman coins. This Is unquestionably beautiful
material, but not offering as much study opportunities as are needed
for students from other countries.
123
Thoughts about this HI story » Personal Philosophy, and the Miraculous
Additions to the Seal Collection
Cans: Quite recently, I had the good luck to add a collection of well over
three hundred Sasanlan pieces [from Persia].* I also added some
seals from India and found there were some amusing pieces In this
collection. These were collected from a place named Mohenjo-Daro.
These latter collections are going to be discussed In the next
Interview. Later, I'll also talk about my connections with Helen
Stress and about Alexander [Sascha] Liebermann, who was my friend for
thirty years, and who died a couple of years ago. I'm also going to
give more Information about my daughter, her studies leading to a
doctorate, the sickness of my wife, and how I arrange my life now.
[Interview 12: January 4,1984]##
Cans: Maybe I began to speak about seals too early. We are now in the
1960s, and I earnestly had to think of ending my career as a
numismatist. In my mind, I fixed my eightieth birthday as the
closing date. The necessity for doing so was forced by a few
1 1 I nesses of my own and the vanishing vision of my wife. In
addition, there came to the foreground a number of contradictory
developments in the business world. I must admit that I did not feel
up to following the general trend. First of all, for me art is not
merchandise. Besides, I judge myself to be a good buyer, but a
miserable salesman. The development of a major business and
collecting corresponded directly with my dreams. The new Numismatic
Fine Arts was brilliant, and in a few years It joined the few leading
enterprises In art and numismatics, being en par with the greatest
European houses.
On my part, I used to say that everything that happened was a
miracle. I believe it was a French philosopher who said, "A real
collector does not hunt for his objects, but the objects come to
him." Let me give you a few examples:
*Sasanlan — having to do with Sasanldae, the dynasty that ruled
Persia from 226 to 651 A.D.
124
The Valuable Mohenjo-Daro Seal
Gans: Some fifty or sixty years ago a new culture was discovered In the
nothern part of India. One of the main places was Mohenjo-Daro. An
Egyptian dealer who happened to visit with me showed me a few
Egyptian objects. He also showed me a little velvet box Inscribed as
coming from an English collector and containing a seal from Mohenjo-
Daro. He had picked It up somewhere In London, and I bought It
because I liked the velvet box and also the seal — without knowing the
slightest thing about It. Now It belongs to the great rarities
because none of the ancient discoveries are allowed to leave the
country. In a recent large exhibition of seals I saw only two
specimens — both In poor condition. The seal proper was considered
worth being described In a publication by Professor G. F. Dales In
the Kramer Anniversary Volume dated 1976.
Rare Seals from Thailand
Gans: A comparable event happened quite recently. There was a scholar from
Europe who* throughout her lifetime* made many, many travels all over
the world. She Is now working at UC Berkeley. She spent a number of
years In Thailand, and she accumulated a number of art works there,
which she showed us two years ago at a party In our home. Among them
were two seals. When asked If she would part with them she only
laughed. A short time ago she had a toothache and needed money for
the dentist, and offered me the two seals. We found out that they
belonged to a culture only discovered about ten or fifteen years ago
In the northern part of Thailand, and which Is probably older than
the Chinese culture. The name of the culture Is Banchiang. I am
probably one of the few happy persons who were able to secure an Item
from this culture because Thailand does not allow export of such
pieces.
Two Unusual Seals from China
Gans: My greatest love was the Chinese culture. I mentioned the above
story of the acquisition, but I would like to stress that the Chinese
culture Is equal to, or even beats, the European culture In a number
of respects. There Is, for Instance, an object which has no name but
deserves a description here. It Is a round bamboo disc of about two
Inches In diameter, neatly decorated with a landscape, of which one
quarter Is removed. Into this removed quarter fits a square seal,
and the disc Is used for the purpose of putting a seal straight on
Its object (a painting or whatever else). Where else Is such respect
125
Cans: shown for at art work? Another object In my collection Is a piece of
Ivory— very solid/ and perhaps eight Inches long, half an Inch thick,
and an Inch and a half wide. It also has a very charming flower
decoration. What Is the purpose? It Is just a wrist rest. The
owner uses It when he Is writing or painting.
it
Huth: So the owner uses a work of art just to rest his arm?
Cans: Yes. When he Is writing It Is flat.
Huth: Maybe It makes It easier to accomplish finer writing.
Gans: Naturally. That's the whole thing. Where else — ? Well, In Europe
they don't write with a brush, naturally.
Friendship with Professor Helmpel ; Lodging the Seal Collection at
U.C. Berkeley
^•^™»^»"^^— *
Gans: Here I would like to Insert a few words about Professor Wolfgang
Helmpel. We have been friends for a long time. He observed my
activities and encouraged me whenever questions arose. I still
remember a luncheon together when we observed that simple decorations
on seals appeared In such diverse countries as Mexico, Greece, and
Persia — In different eras, but not too far distant from each other.
Whenever we got together, a lot of new questions and problems turned
up — but very few answers could be elucidated. Very often we said a
seal Is not a seal — but maybe a calendar or a medical Instrument.
And so the Idea ripened that the collection belonged In a learning
Institution, and that there Is none better than the University of
Cal ifornla at Berkeley.
So for the last five or ten years the collection has been on
permanent loan to the University of California, and we dream — or more
than dream — of writing a complete catalog justifying Its title,
Comparative SIgl I lography. hereby creating a new discipline. I
believe the transfer of property (the seal collection) Is not the job
of a near-centenarian, but of his daughter who Is eager to follow the
request of her father.
New additions come from time to time, and I hope to make further
additions such as the one made quite recently — namely, a collection
of well over three hundred Sasanlan pieces originally assembled by an
English lord many years ago. I venture the hope that other
collectors affected by this story will enrich the University.
126
Huth
: Has anyone else given seals as you did?
Gans: No. Naturally* in the Lowle Museum there are a lot of seals,
particularly seals from Mrs. Phoebe Hearst. But otherwise not; this
Is a new thing and I don't know how they will handle It. It Is a
good contribution for the study of activities In other countries, as
I have already observed over the last few years.
More on the "New" Numismatic Fine Arts
Gans: The "new" Numismatic Fine Arts Is not confined to numismatics but
Includes fine arts as well. But they conduct the "arts" under the
name of Summa Galleries, Incorporated. In an outstanding way they
have arrived at the top and they are one of the few leading firms In
the world. The close cooperation between myself and my successor Is
Illustrated by a recent Summa Gallery catalog which enclosed a little
story of the Gans collection. I believe I do not disclose a secret
when I say that there were coins previously In my collection which
appeared In a catalog of Numismatic Fine Arts.
127
XII LIVING WITH ASYA AND MUSIC: 1939 TO 1979
Gans: I am asked to say a few personal words about my personal life In my
evening hours. As I said earlier, my wife Asya was a professional
pianist with a degree from the Hochschule Fur Muslk, In Berlin.
After our marriage In 1930 she stopped playing professionally, but
our active life was filled with music of every form — with both of us
playing together or with others when we played chamber music.
Musician Friends and Music In New York City and Berkeley ##
Huth: Did you have friends come to play chamber music?
Gans: Yes. In Germany the best known first violinist was Hugo Theorell, a
Swede, who In later years became a famous professor and physicist In
Sweden who was awarded a Nobel Prize. He was a polio victim, but
that did not hinder him from visiting every country. He was Invited
to Berkeley by U.C. In 1956. His wife was Marglt Theorell. He did
not fall to visit with us, and he wrote In our guest book these
typical words: "Words without Song."
Huth: Where did you meet him?
Gans: In Berlin. He was studying In Berlin.
Huth: Was he part of your chamber music group?
Gans: Yes. He came every week to play with us. The Hitler era came In
1933-1934. At that time our daughter was three or four years old, and
we I ived on the BIsmarckstrasse In Berlin, the most frequented
street In the city. All that happened politically went through this
section. The Kaiser's residence was there. So we didn't want to
stay there, and we moved to Dahlen — thafs one of the suburbs of
Berlin. There we had a beautiful apartment — only four rooms, but
they were the four guest rooms of the leading banker In Berlin, In
128
Gans: his house of twelve to fifteen rooms. There we had a beautiful music
group. Then we moved again. Annie Vtctorlus was the sister of the
cellist — she gave us this book, [shows Interviewer the guestbook]
And the first concert was In March of 1934.
Huth: This guest book lists what you played — three Brahms selections.
Gans: Yes» three Brahms* and the pianist was always either Mrs. Theorel I,
my wife, or Mrs. VI ctorl us— the sister and wives of the players. And
here you see the name, Hugo Theorel I.
Huth: And Asya signed It.
Gans: Yes» Asya signed It here. Here were the players, and here were the
guests.
Huth: Did you play about once a week?
Gans: Once every week. Theorel I was our first violinist as long as he
I Ived In Berl In.
Huth: You signed It, too. So six people played.
Gans: Yes. The three pianists changed for each of the three Brahms pieces.
And the first violinist, Theorel I, and I, and Mrs. V I ctorl us— pi ay ed
first violin, second violin, and viola, respectively. It was always
the same.
Huth: And you played viola?
Gans: I played the viola.
Huth: It Is clear the chamber concerts were very important to you.
Gans: Yes, at that time.
Let me move to our I Ife In America. First we I Ived on Staten
Island. I had no work, and to pass the time we occasionally played
music with friends and dilettantes we happened to meet.
During the fifteen years we I Ived In New York there was no time
for the practice of music, but we lived between Carnegie Hall and
Radio City, so Asya had the opportunity to attend many concerts and
operas.
In 1953 we moved to Berkeley, and our first step was to find
musicians who could fill the seats of the first violin and cello.
Very early we had the great fortune to meet Helen Stress, who was a
member of the San Francisco Opera orchestra, and a most charming
friend throughout our thirty years of friendship. Her husband, Fred
Stress, also a close friend, was a chemist born In Egypt, who
129
Gans: mastered many languages, and who was at home with virtually
anything concerning art and science. In the last ten or so years he
has worked as a scientist with the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and
at the same time he managed to work for UC In excavations In Mexico.
He was also a guide for museum travels to Egypt. He published many
of his experiences In the chemists' magazine* Vortex.
Asva : Her Music. Falling Health and Passing In 1979
Gans: The other friend I must mention Is Alexander Llebermann. Did I
mention Asya?
Huth: Yes. In her signature In the book It looked as If she spelled It A-
s-s-I-a.
Gans: Yes. Later on we changed It. Instead of two s's she made It one s»
because she said* "I don't want Assla with two s's because It looks
like 'ass.'" So we decided on the general Russian way* with A-s-y-a.
As I was saying* the other friend whom I must mention Is
Alexander "Sascha" Lleberman. Alexander was always called Sascha.
Sascha and Asya studied together In Berlin at the Hochschule.
Sascha's teacher was Egon Petrl; Asya's teacher was Leonid Kreutzer.
They both came together on occasion* but the real friendship
developed thirty years later. Sascha went to Paris* became a concert
pianist, and after the war his former teacher, Petrl* Invited him to
join him In Berkeley where he taught at Mills College. He was very
wel I known.
it
Sascha's wife* Steffa* was his wonderful comrade. When we moved
to Berkeley In 1953 we Immediately renewed the old friendship* which
became most Intimate* and lasted until his death In 1978. Asya's
death followed a year later, and Steffa suffered a terrible stroke
over four years ago and Is still alive [as of January 1984] — lying In
a coma In a rest home In Orlnda. For four years she has been
artificially fed. Isn't that terrible!
During all these years of friendship we made trips together. We
also attended his lectures and his pupils' concerts* where we made
many acquaintances. The two ladles telephoned each other almost
130
Gans: daily* and what annually became a pleasant celebration was the
Llebermanns1 anniversary on New Year's Eve In our home. The
Llebermanns did not have any children.
Those are the real friends* the Stresses and the Liebermanns.
All of the other ones were just acquaintances by comparison.
Huth: And they were all music related and not related to your coins.
Gans: There was one other couple we met because of coins* with whom I had
broken up because the woman was too terrible, and he died long ago.
That was the one who helped me with the Russian collection.
Fred Stress was Invited by Professor Helzer of U.C. Berkeley to
help with excavations In Mexico. Professor Heizer and others from
the Metropolitan Museum of Art invited him to go with them to Egypt.
He speaks Arabic. He was the one who got me the Egyptian coins and
seals. They have two children who have caused them much worry.
Huth: Are both of the Stresses still living?
Gans: Yes. Both are really the finest human beings.
Toward the end of the 1960s Asya was forced to give up the
piano — but certainly not the music. Friends of ours loved the opera*
and these friends* together with Helen Stress* encouraged her to
participate In going to or listening to what was going on In San
Francisco, There were Interesting lectures on the radio about music*
and none was missed by Asya. And now began my job — I read books
aloud to her concerning music* whether they were Sascha's lectures or
the correspondence between the composer Strauss and the text writer*
Hoffmannsthal* Stravinsky or others. The year 1978 brought us our
greatest satisfaction — the graduation of our daughter* Lydla* from
U.C. Berkeley. She Is now a professor of mathematics at California
Polytechnic University In Pomona. That summer, for the first time,
we met relatives from Buenos Aires* and shortly afterwards Asya's
suffering started. I will not talk about the fallings of the doctor.
I can only say that Asya carried her pain like a hero for practically
a full year. She had a radio at her bedside* and I can still hear
her words* three days before her passing: "I don't want any more
music.11 On August 15, 1979, she closed her eyes, and I was— and I
am — alone.
131
XIII MIRACULOUS EVENTS, NEW TASKS, PAST REMEMBRANCES, LOVING
FRIENDS AND FAMILY: 1979 TO 1984
[Interview 13: January 25,1984]##
Expanding the Seal Collection: A Special Location on the UC Campus
Gans: I want to try to analyze my feel Ings over the past twenty-five years.
It will be understandable that I got tired of the business, being
already In my seventies. I had no heir In my family for Numismatic
Fine Arts. I could not follow the development of the coin market
with my brain and my heart.
I carried out the liquidation of my coin collection over the
years and concentrated on seals. I was encouraged by Dr. Heimpel as
we formulated the new idea — "comparative si gl I lography." As I
mentioned earlier, I think It was the saying of a French philosopher
that, "A serious collector will experience that the things he loves
come to him and that he doesn't need to hunt after them." Exactly
the same thing happened to me. The von Aulock and the Grosse
collections came to me. The same was the case with the Cretan,
Mexican, Ecuadorian, and Egyptian collections. A good many I
encountered in London auction sales.
Huth: Was there any one catalog that was better than another in London?
Gans: No. They were similar and came regularly every six months or every
six weeks.
Huth: That wasn't just Christie's?
Gans: It was Christie's, Sotheby's and other English catalogs. And
occasionally — from Paris, and other places.
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Vier arme Saiten! es Klingt wie Scherz
frale Wunder des Schaes,
Hat doc der Mensch nur ein einzig Herz
Und reicht doch bin fur Alles Alles!
Grillparzar
so 1st xaein Herz voll von Dir,
Mein Eddi, so Liebe ich Dich - so bleib aucg
Du mir got Denke meiner. Deiner Mutter
20. Sept. 1920
English, translation: Translated from Franz Grillparzer (Austrian
poet, 1791-1872) by Natasha Borovsky
Just four poor strings! it seems a joke
for all the wonders of the sound,
So has man but one heart alone
Which yet suffices him for all!
And so, too, is my heart full of you,
My Eddy. Be good to me always.
Remember me. My love asks no more than
this.
Your Mother
September 20, 1920
132
Gans: For six or more years the whole collection of seals was deposited at
the Lowle Museum. A year or two ago It was moved to Evans Hal I on
the U.C. campus to a special room dedicated to house all of It,
Including the library. It Is located In the Department of Near
Eastern Studies, where, naturally, all scholars take an Interest In
the material and encourage their students to do the same.
Another miracle happened again only last year when I was able to
acquire the collection mentioned earl ler of over three hundred
Sasanlan pieces, all seals, and even last week [January 1984] other
very exquisite material was added.
Recalling 1979; Asya's Passing, a Loving Mother, and Events
From Lono AQO
Gans: I feel I must return to the last months of my life with Asya. It had
never occurred to me that I would be the survivor. I was not
mentally prepared for this. When, during her last few hours, I
kissed her hand and promised her that I would follow soon, I decided
to pass on of my own free will. But In my heart I had always some
disdain against suicide, and even more Impressive were the words of my
good friends Norman and Millie Dav Is, who cal led me once or tw Ice
every day, warning me not to commit any stupidity, and telling me that
I still had duties to fulfill. But strangely enough, In those days I
had the picture of my mother before me. If I did not say it In the
beginning of this Interview, I will mention It here. In al I of her
married life she lived In Hamburg togther with her only daughter,
until her end. When the conditions of the Inflation In Germany
became too hard, we took her to Berlin, got a nice apartment for them
(my mother and sister), and took care of them. My mother and I were
very, very close.
Let me mention only one story. When I was a boy of perhaps four
years old I played with a book on classical mythology. I scribbled
all over Its pages. She gave me this book together with one other
book thirty years later and Inscribed It just as if I was still her
baby. I still have these books and cherish them. [Gans shows the
Interviewer the book.]
Huth: This one has beautiful Illustrations.
Gans: This could be where my love for classical art started. I really love
th I s book. It Is ca I I ed Per Qlymp Qber Mythologle der Grlechen
und Rnmer. by U. H. Petlscus [Leipzig, 1980]
And this Is the other book, [shows Interviewer a second book]
I32a
Skilmntala.
o u t i I i1» il * 3 d> a u | p i
T c it t i d> ni i t r i f rt> f> c J r t c 1
3 T c i i i- ^ u f l a 3 r
f "V JHl :
'?!. i' reef h.i u J.
133
Cans: For the other book I have to explain that my mother was an actress In
her younger years In Krefeld, In Hamburg* and at the Burgtheater In
Weln [Vienna]. I am proud to have a poster from the year 1869 from
the Burgtheater In Weln, and a book given to my mother by a friend of
her parents. This book Is cal led Sakuntala. by the Indian writer*
Kalldafa [Leipzig, 1861]. A Dr. Adolph Stern has written the
following dedication, which Max Knight translated for me. The
translation of Dr. Adolph Stern's dedication follows:
"That which the genius of art has hallowed
will never perish, will forever thrive.
Though generations fade, whole nations vanish,
Homer and Kalldasa are alive.
The gracious genius cast a smile upon you,
he touched you with his wand a special way;
that he may shine upon your face forever,
this Is my wish on this, your festive day.
Is It the blossom of earlier years or the fruits
of old age you desire,
Is It what chal lenges, that which del Ights or
nourishes, gives satisfaction,
heaven and earth — do you wish to embrace with one word them,
I'll name Sakuntala, you, and all that needs saying Is said." *
But the main reason for mentioning my mother was to talk about her
1 1 terary Interests.
it
Her dally saying over many years was, "I pray to my God" (she had her
own private God) "Gesund und Tod" (meaning In good health and death),
and her good Lord fulfilled her prayer one afternoon, on January 24,
1930. She came home from her dally walk and said to her daughter, "I
do not feel so good. I be I I eve I'll go to bed." Half an hour I ater
when my sister went Into the bedroom, Mother was lying peacefully
dead. I cannot help but think that my mother's blessing will extend
to me the same kind of passing.
Translation by Max D. Knight, Berkeley.
134
Natasha Borovsky; Author* Poet* Translator* Frlendj and Helping to
Proofread her Manuscript — at Age 92. 1979
Gans: Now I have to report a strange event and even stranger miracles to
follow. While Asya was suffering In the hospital* mall arrived from
our friends* the Llebermanns, who we knew very well. They Inquired
about our health and activities. These letters were written In
Russian and French with which I was not at a I I, or very little*
familiar. Asya Immediately told me to call up Natasha* saying she
would certainly do the translation. Natasha Is the daughter of the
famous concert pianist* Alexander Borovsky. As a child of twelve
years Natasha had studied piano In Paris with Llebermann, and resumed
the friendship after both had moved to Berkeley* where we — and
especially Asya — met her frequently. She Is an extremely gifted
person* speaks six languages fluently* and writes poems In four
languages. She Is also the author of several Interesting prose
stories. Upon Asya's advice I approached Natasha and she readily
took over translation of our correspondence. Our contact with her
became closer* and she had the kindness to present us with her latest
oeuvre* which she called Ten Poems for Framing [published In 1979].
I saw Natasha a short while later and told her, "I was very much
Impressed with your work, but there was a printing error in one
poem." This she considered impossible, having asked four people to
proofread her work. But when I showed her that In her poem* 'The
Last Supper," the word "socialite" was spelled with one "i" too many,
she had to agree.
Then she asked me to proof her just-finished prose work, a roman
[novel], a story In four volumes followed by another story in two
vol umes.
Huth: Were these fiction or real-life stories?
Gans: Ifs a reman, a novel — I Ike War and Peace by Tolstoy, and It deals
with the same kind of things, but a hundred years later.
Huth: Is It a real-life story?
Gans: Ifs a historical novel. When she asked me to proof it, I
wholeheartedly agreed to It. What better thing could I do in the
evenings, when I left Asya in her hospital room? So I worked on this.
When I started the job I became so engrossed in It that I cried out*
'Natasha, I love you." I got up from my chair, went Into my chapel
(as I cal I the corner of my room, where I have the photos of my two
late wives), and they (my wives) answered me, "You love her work, and
not the person." And that Is true, Natasha was and remained my true
friend. She married, but never forgets her friend, and she has
called practically dally for the last five years.
135
Cans: Natasha's novel reminds me of Tolstoy's War and Peace, and I
particularly admire her wonderful language. This job took me many
months* and our practically dally meetings gave us enough opportunity
for conversation. I acted as a critic.
Meeting Artist. Lucy Kaplan. Through Natasha: The Adoption* and
Lucy's Daughters ii
Gans: Coming back to Natasha's Ten Poems for Framing, she told me that five
of these ten poems were dedicated to the batiks of Lucy Shapiro (now
Kaplan). Naturally, I asked her about Lucy, and she told me that
Lucy had been a friend of hers for ten or more years and that she was
a very gifted painter who, In her feelings and expressions was
similar to herself. Natasha wanted to Introduce me to her, and on
one nice day we dropped In at Lucy's place, a charming place,
decorated all over with her work and with plants. Lucy showed her
present work which was, to say quite frankly, alien to me. Upon my
question as to what she wanted to express In her work, she replied
with the word, "abstract," which, like lightening, cleared up for me
the whole of modern painting. Lucy said, "I wanted to paint silence.
My problem was how to express It. Here you see how I arrived at it."
It was a shock for me. Something new was opened before my eyes, and
I simply had to follow into this opening. It became a new art for
me. Now I understood the painting, and I understood Natasha's poem,
"Silence In Ye I low."
Huth: That was the title of one of the poems?
Gans: Yes. Now I understood Natasha's poem and the painting, "Silence in
Yellow." [see text on next page]
35a
Silence in Yellow
silence in yellow
stillness aglow
nothing is stirring
no green things grow
house in the desert
flat-roofed and square
austere habitation
monastically bare
suggestion of Mexico
siesta and heat
aloof yellow hermitage
radiant retreat
brown windows and doors
what lies behind?
mysterious corridors
into the mind?
the straight and the arched
symbolic asymmetry
compositional riddle
secret dichotomy
brown tendrils creeping
fissures on cloth
relievers of monotone
softening flaws
house in the desert
enigmatic yet known
numinous haven
spiritual home
stillness in yellow
silence alight
luminous solitude
my soul's delight
Natasha Borovsky-Hidalgo*
on the batik by Lucy Shapiro
£&
' Borovsky, Natasha, Ten Poems for Framing (Berkeley, California,
19791. self-nublisherl.
136
Cans: The artist applied maybe a dozen different kinds of yellows. I was
able to acquire It and bought the painting* which together with the
poem hangs over my bed. And silence Is floating like an Imaginary
conception of peace when I am resting In bed.
In a second visit I saw another batik called* "The Beginning."
It showed the archangel Michael* and In the foreground* Adam and Eve.
But here the artist's conception shows Michael* not with a finger
threatening Adam and Eve with expulsion out of paradise* but Instead*
guiding them Into the world and protecting them with outspread wings.
I feel this peaceful representation Is much more Impressive than the
rather cruel* older* more generally accepted Idea. From then on I
saw Lucy more and more* and I was able to acquire a number of graphic
pieces. And when she started painting In oil I got her first
landscape* and particularly Important for me* her self-portrait made
from a photograph taken when she was twelve years of age.
Lucy — An Adopted Daughter
Gans: Lucy Is separated from her husband. She has two wonderful children,
two girls who are both students at the present time. She has gone
for years under her maiden name, Lucy Kaplan. From the beginning I
was attracted to her* because she reminded me frequently of my first
wife* with whom she has many similarities. These similarities
Induced me to ask her If I could adopt her as my daughter. She
agreed* and so I now have two daughters and five grandchildren.
Lucy's daughters are named Justine and Meagan.
And the wonderful thing Is that both my daughters* Lydla and
Lucy* as well as the three children of Lydla and the two children of
Lucy, love each other so closely that Lydla considers the adoption as
the best thing that I ever did In my life. She says she always
wanted to have a sister. And all the children are as close to each
other as could be.
Huth: That's very fortunate that It worked out that way.
Gans: I cannot close today with better words than these, and with the
reproduction of Lucy's work that first Impressed me so much, and does
so even now — every day.
I can only speak of my personal feelings. This was the first
time — perhaps not even the first; I contend It was the first, and
Lucy says It was the second time that I ever saw the archangel. And
I see silence floating. Silence. Peace. That Is what I wanted to
write. When I am In bed every evening* particularly in the night* I
see something floating* silence floating.
36a
Origins
when man derived
from passing things the concept time
sorrow arrived
love was born
when man of loneliness felt in his flesh
the thorn
in the throes
of pain
fear arose
with pleasure anguish came
desire with despair
with striving, strain
loss with gain
evil of will and violence
not of the wily serpent sprung
guilt of right
not wrong
of sin the seed /'^^k
In greed ™ »
Natasha Borovsky-Hidalgo*
Borovsky, Natasha, Ten Poems for Framing (Berkeley, California,
1979), self-published.
137
Huth: That's a very good time to have that happen.
Gans: Yes.
Huth: It sounds like a meditation.
Gans: And I do my meditation very often. Thafs about all that I have to
say today. I have two more close friends. I didn't mention Carol
Eisenberg — she Is a pianist — and I didn't mention Roslyn Jamieson, she
Is studying art. It's not the same Intimacy of feeling.
Huth: Are these like members of your family?
Gans: Lucy Is like my real daughter, really. And, as to Natasha — always
when we were together during the first two years, I wished to marry
her. And she said, "I wish to cal I you my father." I said, "I can't
call you my daughter." It's a different feeling.
Lucy Is very much like my first wife. And what happened — I
showed you my scrapbook — I have maybe five or six literary scraps
from the hand of my wife, my first wife. I remember that we went for
a walk, Lucy and I, and we talked about everything* and finally she
said* "In everything In life you should decide what the heart wants
you to do and not your brain." And that day I came home and I was
just looking through my scrapbook, and there I stumbled over a note
from my first wife, a quotation from Goethe's Faust with the words
"gefuhl 1st a I les." meaning "feeling Is everything." Exactly the
same words as Lucy used, "feeling is everything." The heart Is
everything, not your brain. So Lucy Is like a daughter would be [of
his first wife, Paula]! They are so similar. On that day the Idea
of adopting came to me.
More About Natasha, Lucy, and Lucy's Daughters
Gans: I consider that my two closest women friends are exceptional. I have
two women who are close to me, who w II I be something more than the
ordinary In their fields — Natasha in literature and Lucy In painting.
Huth: I think that's very obvious In their work. It's very beautiful.
Gans: They are not the usual writer and not the usual painter. Natasha's
novel will work out to be something great, like Gone With The Wind,
I Ike War and Peace.* And when I could In one small way help a little
bit through friendship, I have done what I could.
*Natasha Borovsky, A Daughter of the Nobility. New York: Holt,
Rlnehart, and Winston, 1985; London: Viking/Penguin, 1986.
138
Gans: Lucy Is now forty-five. I'm sure she will create more paintings.
When she first met me she told me, "It's my ambition to create
something for posterity." When I met her she had a very nice house
on Mar In Street* and she was doing a I I these things In her terrible
garage. Can you Imagine It? Ordinary garage* small, dirty —
Huth: Probably very dark.
Gans: Without heat, naturally* and everything. Thafs where she worked*
where she did these batiks. And she supports her two children only
with her painting. I don't know whether the father gives something
for the kids. The oldest* Justine* is now twenty years old. She
will be an actress. She Is so wonderful — I can't tell you.
Huth: She wants to be an actress?
Gans: Not only acting* everything In the theater. She refused to take a
vacation last year* and she went to the theater school In Peterboro*
New Hampshire* to learn lighting and directing. She wants to be a
dlrectoi — to do everything.
Huth: Where does she go to school?
Gans: Tufts College. Tufts College Is supposed to have the best theater
school. And the youngest one, Meagan, probably wants to be a writer.
Huth: Is Meagan about eighteen now?
Gans: Yes. I don't mind showing you a letter I got yesterday from her.
[Gans shows the Interviewer the letter.]
Huth: And she wrote It with writing big enough for you to read! That's
nice, [reads letter] She says she's studying German literature and
reading one of Goethe's novels. Do you have any more to say about
Lydia's children?
Gans: Lydia's children are all grown up now. Laurie Is a musician. She
plays viola In the Santa Rose Symphony orchestra and gives chamber
music concerts. She lives In a house that she built In Forestvllle.
Gregory Is a doctor. He Is just finishing his residency In family
medicine In New Jersey. He Is married and has two children. Nina
lives In San Francisco. She Is studying for her Master's degree and
dances ballet, and her husband Is studying for a Ph.D. In
anthropology at U.C. They have one child, so I have altogether three
great-grandch 1 1 dren.
it
Lucy Kaplan (Edward Cans' adopted
daughter), as a teenager, ca. 1951.
Drawing by South African artist Edgar
Toussait van Hove.
Edward Cans recovering from a long depression.
Drawing by Lucy Kaplan after their second
meeting in 1981.
Lucy Kaplan (Edward Cans' adopted daughter), with her two daughters (Edward Cans'
adopted grandchildren), Justine and Megan, ca. 1982.
Lydia Cans' three children (Edward Cans' grandchildren)
ca. 1977.
Laurie, Gregory, and Nina,
139
A Need to Be With People
Cans: Don't forget, I was together with Asya twenty-four hours a day for
thirty years In this house, and fifteen years before that. In New
York — a total of forty-five years. We were here In the U.S. since
1938. For a year we were on Staten Island. I had an office with my
partner on Madison Avenue from 1940 to 1954, some fourteen years.
Huth: That's a long time.
Gans: Yes. And for that reason I cannot be alone. Alone Is terrible. All
the friends, they all come. Lucy works over there [points to
studio/workshop In his yard] and takes care of the garden. One
Interesting point I want to make Is that when Natasha says she Is
coming In half an hour, she may arrive In an hour. When Lucy says
she Is coming at 4:00 and she can't make It she calls at 3:55 and
says, "I will be there at 4:10." That Is the difference between
these two. [laughter] All people are different.
Huth: Thafs right. Does Lucy use the studio? You constructed a studio
here on your property.
Gans: Yes. Practically every day.
More on Lucy Kaplan's Work and Daughters: Meagan and Justine
Gans: Now Lucy Is working at the jail In Martinez. She has a job there.
Huth: She's teaching art?
Gans: She Is teaching the Inmates, and she even remembers to bring her
music. And the people are so converted now. They say, "We don't
want rock-'n-rol I, we don't want jazz. Bring us Beethoven; bring us
the classics."
Huth: She plays the music while they work with their painting?
Gans: Yes, while they work. That's only been done recently— a new Idea.
Huth: And that's In Martinez?
Gans: In Martinez, yes. She works In Martinez four days a week.
Huth: And Is that al I day?
140
Cans: On Monday* Tuesday/ and Wednesday for half a day. She Is also
working In a hospital as a therapist. Before I met her she was a
therapist for five years at the Kaiser hospital In Martinez* from
three o'clock until midnight. Terrible hours. She had a very poor
father* and no real family. Then she had the dlsappiontment with her
marriage. So I was able to give her a lot of love. That's al I. And
the children and mothei — you can't believe how wonderful It Is. All
these three together* Ifs absolutely wonderful 1 So she has that
love of her children as a substitute for many other things. Both
children are absolutely exceptional.
Huth: Is Meagan In college yet* or Is she still In high school?
Gans: She Is a student In Santa Cruz.
Huth: At the University of California?
Gans: Yes. For half a year now. Justine Is now In the second year at
Tufts Col lege.
Okay* so* In other words* I feel justified that I left Asya
waiting for me [meaning that he continued to live a meaningful life]*
because I did something useful for six new people. And that's good.
I don't have any regrets. And I can do a I Ittle bit for the
University of California.
More on the Berl In Years and the Summer House for Bank Emol ovees
Gans: Oh. I have to show you my letter, [goes to find letter] When I
talked about my banking affairs I could have said that we were
Interested In real estate* that we had the Important bank property*
but that's absolutely unimportant. What Is Important Is that I
bought In a suburb of Berl In, Saarow, a vacation spot* a recreation
place for the employees of our bank, where they could bring their
families. I also had a confidential doctor [psychiatrist] engaged*
where they could go. So I had my employees' welfare In mind.
Huth: That's very progressive.
Gans: In Saarow. I bought a big house. I think It had twenty-two or
twenty-five rooms* where the employees could spend their summer
vacation according to a reservation schedule.
Huth: And did they use It a lot?
Gans: Yes. And they went to the confidential doctor.
141
Lvdla Gans— A Remarkable Dauahter
Gans: Now I will talk about Lydia* my daughter. She Is a late-bloomer.
When she was young she was very pol Itlcal ly minded. She married a
Negro. She was always for the underdog In every respect. She was
her own person. She didn't want to be guided by her father's
Inf I uence.
Huth: A lot of young people are that way.
Gans: She Is crazy for travel. She was In China* In the Himalayas* In
Spain* In Egypt* In Cuba. Every year she goes once or twice to
foreign places. She likes to make new acquaintances. If I die
tomorrow, you have enough I [laughter]
Lydla Is a professor. Now she Is a senator. She Is getting
ready for that. Now she Is getting mature.
Huth: You said she Is a senator?
Gans: In the university.
Huth: In the academic senate?
Gans: Yes. California Polytechnic University. Her mother and I were more
for art and the humanities* and she Is strictly for science. Then
Lucy and Natasha are both In the humanities. That's fortunate.
142
XIV THE STORY ABOUT THE SASANIAN SEALS, THE NEW NUMISMATIC FINE
ARTS, PAST COLLECTING, AND THE RENAISSANCE MEDALS
Acquiring the Sasanlan and Portrait Seals, 1984
Huth: I see you have some clay there. Are you working In clay?
Gans: Yes. I am making Impressions of the seals I've got.
Huth: Are these seals on this tray that you've brought out?
Gans: Yes.
Huth: Do you want to give me any details about the seals?
Gans: Yes. I will tell you the story just for your amusement. It's a long
story. It started with Dr. David Stronach. Do you know Stronach?
Huth: Yes. Did he help you with this acquisition?
Gans: He came to the Berkeley campus as a newcomer, and he got a letter
from Christie's In London that they would have a collection of
Sasanlan seals In their next auction. Since he was not Interested,
he left It lying on his desk. When Helmpel came Into his room by
chance, he said, "I have a letter here, they're having an auction."
Helmpel naturally came and told me about It, because there we could
buy seals. Then I said to Helmpel, "With my hearing problem and all
that, It's better If you make the telephone call. I can't hear so
well." And he telephoned Christie's, and Christie's told him that
the col lection belonged to Lord so-and-so, and that he died, and that
his daughter will sell them. They were particularly Interested In
having their collection remain Intact, In one group. We said, "Yes,
we will buy them, and what will the price be?" I think It was valued
tax-wise at f Ive-to-elght thousand dollars, or something like that.
"All rlght,"l said, "I will pay five thousand dollars and the rest we
will see." We were also to get the cabinet In which they were
Edward Cans in his 100th year with his daughters, Lydia and Lucy, in 1987.
143
Gans: stored, and a catalog that the owner had written. Okay, now the
auction came, and we got four lots of three hundred twenty-nine
seals. But there was a fifth lot with portrait seals, and a dealer
In Hollywood bought that. Naturally, Helmpel and I were very
disappointed, because I have enough Sasanlan seals, but portrait
seals I have never seen. But we couldn't do It. It was done. What
could we do? Then they didn't want to give us the cabinet, so we put
the seals In our own cabinet. So that was a disappointment.
Louis Paooas and the Portrait Seal s
Gans: The other day a friend of mine, a Mr. Louis Pappas, * an art dealer
and a wonderful businessman — visited me.
Huth: Is his business In San Francisco?
Gans: Yes. In San Francisco. He was going to Los Angeles, and he said he
would try to see this fellow and try to find out about the portrait
seals. I paid fifteen dollars apiece for the Sasanlan seals, and he
paid a hundred dollars. So the portraits are more valuable. We
hoped Pappas could persuade him to give these up at the original
price. Then I would have bought one or two of the portrait seals. I
was aware he may have already sold them. Everything was possible.
Huth: But perhaps you also thought he might like to have some In this
collection go to the university.
Gans: Yes, for the university.
Now, I have another story about portrait seals. A Mr.
Carravache, or something like that, a collector of seals, approached
Getty with his collection. Getty** sat down and picked out — from
over one hundred seventy pieces — these nine portrait seals, which I
later acquired from Getty. And then Getty said that maybe the Lowle
Museum could buy the other seals. So I called Lowle, and Lowle
people also came. The Lowle Museum bought some one hundred forty
other seals, and I bought these seals. So the fellow Is happy that
he got rid of all of them. Lowle Is happy that they got seals, and I
am happy for the university that I got another thirty-one seals,
which just filled In the gap of the three hundred twenty-nine we had.
I don't need the one hundred forty acquired by Lowle. I have them
already. So everybody Is happy now. And that Is the story.
*Louis Pappas passed away In 1983.
**0fficlals at the J. Paul Getty Museum, Mai Ibu, California, on the
estate of J. Paul Getty who died June 6, 1977.
144
Gans: Anyway* now I have three hundred twenty-nine* plus thirty-one — three
hundred sixty seals* and Wolfgang Helmpel Is so happy* because
before* I had only fourteen Sasanian seals In my big collection.
Huth: As to the Sasanian seals* where are they from In Persia?
Gans: From the Acamanlan dynasty, from the time of the Persian Wars, Darlos
and Xerxes and a I I of those people that went back to about two
hundred B.C. Then came the Parthlans* and then came the Sasanlans,
and then came the — in between are always the battles between all of
these peoples and Rome. And then came the Arabs* who chased out the
Sasanlans.
Obtaining Clay Impressions of the Seal Collection
Huth: Will these seals be catalogued along with the others at the
university?
Gans: Yes. We also got impressions for the three hundred Sasanian seals.
Huth: I saw those In He Impel 's office.
Gans: Now* I will try to make an Impression here* If I can do It —
Huth: The Impressions help you to study the detail?
Gans: Yes. [Gans goes about making an Impression]
Huth: Were the ones that were In Professor Heimpel's office also cast?
They were white. They looked as If they might have been plaster of
Paris.
Gans: They were white. That was the old-fashioned way* with chalk and so
on. Then this was Invented.
Huth: And It stays soft?
Gans: No.
Huth: It gets hard.
Gans: That Is the wonderful thing. I make a plate out of It. I use a
rolling pin. [he continues to work]
Huth: And you roll It out flat.
145
Gans: Yes. And then I press 1 t, as I did here. Then I put this piece in
my oven* and warm it up to one hundred fifty degrees for thirty
minutes. Then It Is hard* and I can send It out.
Huth : It's probably more permanent than plaster* stronger.
Gans: Yes. And that Is now my job for the next days.
Huth: Until you do al I thirty of them?
Gans: Yes. That is the most unpleasant thing — to make these Impressions.
These four here are made out of VInegel. It comes like that. And I
believe I have a big supply. I once bought twenty kilos* and the
firm ttiat made it In England doesn't exist any more. So It Is
val uabl e.
Huth: What is it cal led?
Gans: VInegel. I got It from Edith Porada. The firm that made It» Vinetex
Ltd.* In Surrey* England* doesn't exist any more.
More on the New Numismatic Fine Arts; Bruce McNal I's Successful
Pea I ersh 1 p //#
Gans: This book Is about the work of Numismatic Fine Arts. It describes
the ancient coin collection of the Hunt brothers. That coin
dealership has a million dollars alone from the Hunt brothers'
business, [shows a book on the collection]
Huth: And that's all put out by this firm?
• '
Gans: Yes, all put out by this firm.
Huth: Thafs spectacular. The name of this book is* The Wealth of the
Ancient World. And this Is the Hunt collection.
Gans: That's the Hunt collection.
Huth: And they have that collection In Beverly Hills at the Summa
Gal lerles?
Gans: They assembled It. They stand behind It. When they have a big deal
they can go to Mr. Hunt for help. I would never have had such a
connection as Bruce McNal I had* never this way of handling things.
I am not a businessman. I am more for university-related works* and
he Is for big money and the Investment. For that reason* It is
important for him to say* "I am the owner of an old firm." And* if
146
Gans: he has Numismatic Fine Arts and continues the story* then he Is the
new owner of an old established firm. And I feel he should
acknowledge that* and that was what I wrote In my letter to him» but
I didn't send It.
Bruce McNal I Is a very, very smart businessman. He started out
small and now he works with the Hunts. Now he has married a lady who
was a professor at USC> she also wrote the catalog* and we are al I
friends. Lydla Is a friend of Jane and Bruce McNal I.
Huth: How old Is Bruce McNal I?
Gans: I would guess under forty.
Huth: There's a newspaper clipping about him In your scrapbook that
somebody sent you.
Gans: Yes. A friend of mine In Los Angeles sent me that.
SIgmund Morgenroth and Son; Source of Useful Coins
[Interview 14: February 9, 1984]##
Gans: When one enters his seventies* one Is prone to look back to see what
happened In the past and what has been accomplished* and at the same
time* make plans for the future. When looking back* there Is one
event which I purposefully did not mention at the time* because it
ended with an affair which was of great importance for me personally.
I have mentioned the name of Dr. Lederer frequently* as a close
friend and a purveyor of most of my antiquities and coins collected
In Germany. Phillpp Lederer was born in Bamberg* a medieval city In
southern Germany famous for the Bamberger relter. Thafs a
sculpture. Another Bamberger family was the Morgenroths. One member
of this family* SIgmund Morgenroth* became a wealthy Industrialist in
Frankfurt* and an ardent collector of Renaissance medals*
archeologlcal objects* and many other things. Probably prompted by
his friend* Lederer, SIgmund Morgenroth visited me In New York City
during the early period of World War II. He offered me a collection
of perhaps five thousand coins — I should not have said "collection",
perhaps "accumulation" Is better. It was possibly the stock of a
firm given as collateral for a financial affair* and now Mr.
Morgenroth wanted to get rid of It.
147
Gans: Mr. Morgenroth's son» Charles Morley (all the sons of Mr. Morgenroth
had changed their names)* was an art and coin dealer in a style
similar to mine* except that he was wealthy and more Inclined to deal
with substantial art works than smal I coins. He had refused his
father's coins because he considered them junk that was unsaleable.
My attitude was different. Having my own German collection and the
Nussbaum collection as fine material* this addition might serve now
or at some later time as material for the beginner. It contained
many unpopular Items* and was the source of pleasant studies In the
evening hours. When my student collectors came and paid five dollars
for such Items I told them explicitly, "Never forget that you paid
one dollar for the coin and four dollars for the label."
Not too long ago, erstwhile students — and now professors at
universities and curators at museums — confirmed to me personally that
they never forgot this lesson.
My relationship with Charles Morley was very friendly* but he
moved back to Europe at an early date. He was* by heart, more a
sportsman, and he enjoyed his life and sports In Switzerland. His
father had moved to California and had a beautiful home In Santa
Barbara. I was able to renew the relationship when I also moved to
California. More about that later.
The Decision to Move from Coin to Seal Collecting at Aoe Seventy-Five
Gans: When I was seventy-five years of age there were fleeting thoughts of
the past. My main concern was how to handle the future. My only
daughter, Lydla* had become a professor of mathematics at the
California State Polytechnic University. I had no other heirs to
continue my business. As I said earlier, for a short while I
considered a newly established dealer In southern California to
become my successor. I let him set I some of my coins and even
trusted him to buy some of my seals at the London auction houses.
But soon, I found that some of these activities were manipulated—to
say the least — Incorrectly. I completely discontinued any
relationship with him.
This was the time of ever-rising prices In the 1960s and 1970s.
It was easy to dispose of my coins over those years — In Switzerland,
Germany, and England, and through some dealers here In this country.
Naturally* this tendency of the coin market was as pleasant as It was
unexpected. At the same time, it became food for thought. Coins
became an Investment material* an Idea which was alien to me and
which I was unable to handle mentally* and I say It quite frankly*
f I nanclal ly.
148
More on the Sasanlan Seals. U.C. Berkeley» and the Propriety of
Importing and Exporting National Treasures
Huth: WIN you please tell me more about the acquisition of the Sasanlan
seals and how they will be studied?
Gans: I think It was natural that I decided to limit my Interest to seals,
and I have mentioned that this splendid material came to me with the
support of Professor Helmpel. He became a close friend and we shared
Ideas. I remember a moment of a conversation where we, almost at the
same moment* said we had to compare the products of one country with
those of another.
And, at that moment, the term, "comparative slgl I lography" was born.
Since then I centered my attention on Individual pieces of unusual
origin, but this does not exclude the purchase of Individual
collections from one country or another. So, as I have explained, I
have recently acquired a group of about three hundred fifty Sasanlan
[Persian] seals representing all known types and of special Interest
to scholars In the Department of Near Eastern Studies at the
University of California at Berkeley. Professor Gobi In Vienna, who
Is my close friend, has written a book on Sasanlan seals. All of
this brought me to an ever closer connection with U.C. Berkeley. The
collection Is now housed In a special room next to the Department of
Near Eastern Studies. It Is and should remain on permanent loan to
U.C. Berkeley. My daughter, the real owner, will, I assume, carry
out my request to make a gift of it to UC, and I assume Professor
Heimpel will fulfill his Intention to write a catalog for it.*
This brings me logically to a topic much discussed In recent
years. The promulgation of laws In many countries prohibits the
export of excavated material. And the corresponding laws In
receiving countries prohibits purchases by museums and collectors,
and demands the return of such goods. It Is a difficult controversy
to decide — which side has the more Important rights.
Huth: How do you feel about It?
Gans: I personally side with the university because every bit of knowledge
extracted from the object proper needs all of the Information
possible about the surroundings In which the object has been found.
*The catalog Is being researched and compiled by Professor Gultty
Azarpay, of the U.C. Berkeley Department of Near Eastern Studies.
149
Gans: Worthwhile objects are kept In the storerooms of the museums. I have
heard a figure of ten times larger than the exhibited objects. Why
not arrange loans or travel agreements with other museums Inside and
outside the proper countries? And on the other side, travel to other
countries Is now so facilitated that visits to those local museums
have become a new attraction.
The Study of Renaissance Medals
Gans: While the I Iquldatlon of my erstwhl le stock contl nued automatical ly,
as mentioned before, the growth of my seals collection also continued
automat I cal ly .
The Impressive Morgenroth Collection
Gans: There Is one event that took close to five years of my time. This
happened In a strange way. We were visiting our daughter In Los
Angeles. On the way back to Berkeley we stopped In Santa Barbara,
after having reestablished the connection and I daresay friendship,
with SIgmund Morgenroth. as I mentioned earlier. He was an
Interesting personality. His collection of Renaissance medals was
really outstanding. He had It on exhibit at a museum In Chicago,
hoping the museum would acquire It after their curators wrote a
catalog, but nothing came of it. At some point he withdrew the
collection, and at each visit he showed me some of the Individual
Items. While I knew the Dreyfus/Kress collection In Washington and
Individual items from Dr. Jacob Hlrsch, the Morgenroth collection was
still impressive. It was housed In a glass case so that It could be
admired from all sides, and Mr. Morgenroth's personal stories were
very enhanci ng.
it
It prompted me to learn more about Renaissance medals. In my library
at that time I had only Georg Hablch's The Story of the Ital Ian
Medals. It's all In this book, [shows a book to the interviewer]
150
The Gans Study of Goethe's Renaissance Italian Medals
Huth: That's your book on Goethe's Italian medals.
Gans: Yes. This Is Goethe's original, and here Is Max Knight's
transl atlon.
Huth: And It's Illustrated with old drawings. Where were they taken from?
Gans: They are from Goethe's original plates. I got photos of every medal
Goethe owned. Anything you want or that the Bancroft Library would
consider of Interest you can request. We can always talk about it,
and there Is good will on my side.
In Hablch's short preface he quotes a beautiful saying of
Goethe: [paraphrases] Everybody should on every day read a little
chapter from the Bible, listen to some beautiful music, and look at a
few medals. And later on he remarks that Goethe himself wrote a very
Interesting article on his own collection. I had never heard of It.
I had never read It. In my edition of Goethe's complete works, they
did not show any title referring to It, and I couldn't find any
reference to It. From then on my curiosity was aroused. I did not
cease until everything was cleared up. I think It was Hablch himself
who mentioned that Goethe's article had appeared In the Jenalsche
Allemelne LIteratur Zeltung vom Jahre 1810 [General German Literary
Magazine of the City of Jena, Jan/Feb/Mar edition], and It was signed
"W.K.F." — Welmarer Kunst Freunde (Weimar Friends of Art). For many,
many years Goethe had a friend, Helnrlch Meyer (the Saxonlan
description of this person was Der Kunscht — that's the dialect, not
Kunst but Kunscht), whom Goethe often consulted In questions of art.
Naturally, this was not unilateral Information, but a real
conversation where often Goethe's observation, even though he was a
layman, had more Importance than Meyer's contribution. Goethe's
friendship with Meyer — or you could call It "general politeness" — led
him to sign the article, not with his name, but with W.K.F. This Is
not the only article with this signature. There are a number of
others. Those I found are of little Importance.
I started correspondence with libraries and universities In this
country. Some had a few issues of the Jenalsche Al lemelne Literatur
Zeitung, but there was not a single Institution that had the desired
issue from 1810.
Then, In Germany, I started with Hablch's working place — Munich.
There was no copy of this Issue. Finally, I located a scholar In
Germany who drew my attention to an Institute In Weimar, the city
where Goethe had I Ived most of his adult I Ife, and where his house
still exists. There I found perhaps the only surviving Issue from
1810. (Weimar Is located in East Germany.)
151
Gans: I started my correspondence here and I was very happy that I
encountered a willingness to cooperate.
Huth: That was a major research effort. How did you proceed after that?
it
Gans: First* I got a microfilm copy of Goethe's article* and that was the
basis from which to proceed. Then I Inquired as to whether I could
get photos of Goethe's collection, and they were readily supplied.
For Renaissance medals, the exact slxe Is of great Importance, and In
any scientific catalog, the diameter Is given In millimeters.
Unfortunately, the photos sent first were of Incorrect size, and the
whole photographic job had to be redone In exact size. The
bureaucratic handling of this matter In Weimar was excruciatingly
painful. They did not have airmail. Everything went by ordinary
post. Even the smallest postage had to be paid In advance according
to special Instructions.
It was rather time-consuming, but at the same time, I was able
to observe a willingness to help. So the whole matter was completed
I n a pi easl ng way.
Now I had to work on the material proper, and I had to establish
the usual "notes" that are Important for a scientific catalog of
Goethe's medals. Next came the problem of translating Goethe's
German Into English, and for the translator, Max Knight, It was a
problem as to whether this should be done In Goethe's style or a
modern style. Max Knight chose the latter way because he believes
the book Is addressed to the American reader who should get
acquainted with Goethe. Unfortunately, the German reader Is not
acquainted either, and In a short introduction I tried to explain the
reason. Now, fifteen years later, I must admit to some bad luck with
this translation of Goethe's work. In spite of the fact It has been
honored with praising words from the greatest numismatists, Hablch In
Germany, and Hill In London, the deserved esteem and general
knowledge of this work's value has not arrived In Germany.
Huth: When was It published?
Gans: This book was published In 1969. About one hundred copies were sold
In the first month, very few in the next year, and thereafter I heard
that the publishing house had been sold. I considered my duty to
Goethe was fulfilled. I was not Interested in any material follow-
up. At some later time gossip had It that two more publ Ishing houses
became the owners and that the last one went broke. What happened to
the unsold copies — I do not know. They may still exist. I
personally feel that the numismatic content has a certain value that
was recognized by Professor Scwabacher, who reviewed It In the
Hambergersher (the most renowned German paper), July 20, 1978.
152
Gans: Some five years were filled with this pleasant activity — Goethe was
always close to my mind through my early learning from my mother and
my first wife Paula. Goethe was also the first ever to write In a
scientific form about the medalists of the Renaissance period. It Is
natural that scientists one hundred years later arrive at different
attributions — but whether these new attributions will still be
recognized a century from now is an open question. We still should
respect the attempts of a first-comer* Goethe.
153
XV MORE ON SEALS COLLECTING AND VIEWPOINTS ON THE PAST AND FUTURE,
1983 TO 1985
[Interview 15: 6 May 1984311
[Edward Gans made several additions to this history without the
Interviewer Interjecting questions.]
Thoughts on Deteriorating Eyesight Following Surgery, and the Last
Trip with Asya In 1961
Gans: In August 1983, I had my second cataract surgery, which unfortunately
developed Into a degeneration of the retina and I am now partially
blind. Fortunately, the good God allows me to see my neighbors, my
family, the green gardens and woods and streets. I cannot see my own
fingernails and I cannot read or write. I have to do with what Is
left and I have to be thankful for It, although I must do without the
usual tti I ngs I was accustomed to doing.
Earlier, I talked about the second trip to Europe In 1961 that
my wife, Asya* and I undertook. The reason for the trip was to
participate In the Numismatic Congress In Rome and the meeting of the
IAPN In Rome at the same time.
It was a pleasure to meet old friends again, and three
particularly lively events are still In my mind. One was a dinner
given In honor of the IAPN by the Santa Maria brothers In the Castle
of the Angels — I don't remember the Italian name. The second was an
afternoon reception held by GIsela RIchter, the former curator at the
Metropolitan Museum of Art In New York City. The third was a visit
with our old friend, Irene Lande, a writer. She died tragically a
few months later In a hospital. With Irene and her husband, Ernst
Nash, we really saw Rome. He Is probably the best connoisseur of the
old Rome, and he Is the author of the great book mentioned earlier
154
Cans: and titled, Pictorial Dictionary of Ancient Rome. It was the book
I described as having been published by the German government In
three languages: Italian, German and English.
As I said earlier, our trip also took us to Istanbul where we
met with our old friend, Hans von Aulock, who at that time sold us
what was left of his great collection of seals, which fortunately
turned out to be the best part.
More Recol lections on Moving to Seal s Col I ectl ng and Problems
Liquidating the Coin Dealership
Gans: An old saying comes to my mind. It must have first come to me In
Germany seventy years ago when, at a funeral, a rabbi said the words,
•The life of men lasts seventy years, or It goes to more, perhaps
eighty." That Is the period In my life about which I will now
report.
It was time to think about what to do with the rest of the years
ahead. Observing the early 1960s I could see the constant rise In
prices for ancient coins. Also, one does, not buy "for sale" material
when one Is about to give up any kind of a business.
What became clear to me was that slowly but surely the coin
business would take on a different shape. It would not be the
friendly leaving of a good piece with someone. It would become an
Investment with business chances In every direction. And that Is
contre couer [against, or opposed to the heart] .
It became clear to me I had to I Iquldate my material and retire
from any kind of business dealings. In retrospect, it was not so
easy.
As I said earlier, I had met a new dealer who I believed was
understanding and capable. He had been a teacher, and he was
familiar with history and the old way of life. I gave him a few
pieces for sale which he disposed of quite decently. Strangely
enough, while I had some I Iking for his way of deal Ing w Ith a coin,
neither my wife nor several of my friends liked him. In an earlier
Interview I gave a short report about him In which I left this
gentleman nameless. I already told you that his services were not
very satisfactory. He not only sold coins for me, but he also bought
seals at London auction sales which were very frequent at that time.
155
Gans: Later on I had sales In Europe* which for one reason or another were
not completely satisfactory. Somehow* on the face they were destined
for unpleasant actions. It was not a sale but an unpleasant
liquidation of material* and It gave the appearance of not being a
pleasant coin deal but an unpleasant Investment affair for gamble and
speculation. I had to take It In* but at the same time I couldn't
sit still. Now I started to replace my coins with seals which still
had a decent market.
More on Sources for Seals
Albert Baldwin
Gans: I entertained a friendly relationship with the London firm of
Baldwin. Mr. Al bert Bal dw I n, who I dare say was a friend* bought
seals In various auctions In London over the years — Interesting
materials from the same sections I bought from* and which fit very
well Into what I had already assembled. I remember a very fine group
of Cretan coins from a specialized collection of a London collector
and former consul In Crete, which he selected with great taste and
understandl ng.
Fred Stress
Gans: Another friend I told you about In another Interview was Fred Stress,
who was originally a chemist, and familiar with virtually everything
In the line of science. He works now at the University of California
at Berkeley's Lawrence Laboratory. I told you he was born in Egypt.
Through him I acquired a very Interesting group of Egyptian seals
which were of especially good quality.
156
More Thoughts on the Changing Coin Market
Gans: I would like to start this new chapter In a different way. so I will
begin as follows: As I said earl ler, In my youth I often heard the
saying, "The life of men lasts seventy years and In rare cases It may
extend to eighty years." Now I was already In my middle seventies
and I thought I should concentrate on the Idea of my passing away In
the future. I had only two heirs — my wife and my daughter. It was
relatively easy to make my deposition of my assets In my will. First
would come Asya — and after she passes — Lydla. I should talk
principally about coins, because all of my collection was already In
the name of Asya and myself. The main problem was what was happening
to coins. When we came back from Europe, at that time and In the
following years. I observed a constant rise In prices. Nothing could
be objected to In that, but I thought, 'How does It happen, how long
will It last, and what will happen In the future?"
As a former banker, I soon recognized that coins were following
the general art market which had become simply an Investment, and not
a hobby any more. For me. the conception of coins as an Investment
was and Is disgusting. I love coins; I love each Individual piece.
I've had personal contact with each of them. Their history meant a
lot to me. And now I was being asked to consider It (my collection)
like an old Ford, or like Ford or General Electric stock shares. It
simply went against my grain. I had to find Individual dealers here
and In Europe who took over part of the collection on consignment for
auction sales or for Individual sales or what not. To tell the truth,
my experiences In many cases were not pleasant ones. It Is not only
the coin market that has completely changed from a loving hobby to an
Investment. Even the persons connected with It have changed — their
character has changed. It had become simply a business for them, and
all means to a desired end were accepted by them. Our old fashioned
moral-ethical Ideas didn't always find a place. In order to make
money with this new material, everything was considered ethical.
All my life, especially my life In this country. I considered as
a very pleasant activity. I do not want to tell too much about what
happened In this respect, and I leave this section anonymous from A
to Z.
157
Another Miracle — The Seals Collection
Gans: Finally* whether a few dollars more or less were left was not
so Important for my estate, as such. Much more Important for me was
the other side of It that I call seals. I simply couldn't sit still.
I had to have a new occupation. It started with the seals I got from
Hans von Aulock. Edith Porada gave me her great help. Somehow* one
seal came after the other* and I must say that I can almost cat I the
growth of the seal collection a miracle. Later* I will give the
story about how these seals came to me* and the reader will also
perhaps bel leve that a miracle was working and an outer force wanted
me to go In this direction.
I will start with the following story that began with coins and
ended In seals. There was a certain Mr. Otto Frank who was a great
Industrialist In Milwaukee. He was a serious collector of coins who
had good taste and a great Interest. Mr. Frank was also a trustee of
the art museum In Milwaukee* and his Interest In the arts was
widespread. From me he got Impressive Greek and Roman coins* and
once he asked me to assemble a complete set of Roman cast copper
coins — the first Roman coinage consisting of six Items from an "s"
down to an ounce. After a number of months I could offer Mr. Frank
this complete set* and he sat down to write an article about It.
This article was published In the magazine issued by the museum (the
name slips my mind at this moment). Mr. Frank kindly mentioned my
name in his articles. Another article In the magazine concerned a
series on seals. It was written by the director of the Milwaukee
museum, a Dr. Borage.
Dr. Borage mentioned a number of different Issues of seals and,
to my great surprise, I learned that seals had been made and Issued In
Mexico. That was completely unknown to me, because until then I
thought seals were confined to Europe.
I asked Mr. Frank to put me In touch with Dr. Borage, which he
kindly did. Dr. Borage reacted In a most friendly way — promising me
that the next time he went to New York he would try to find some
Mexican seals. He stuck to his word, and a few months later a firm
in New York sent me eighteen Mexican seals on consignment. These
seemed to me to be worthy of collection and very attractive. However,
I thought they had very little In common with European seals.
158
More on the Comparative Collection with Wolfgang Helmpel
Gans: I will Interrupt this train of thought now and mention a personal
connection with Professor Ann Kilmer* who I know from the U.C.
Berkeley Department of Near Eastern Studies. She brought me together
with her colleague* Professor Wolfgang Helmpel. He Is of German
origin so we have much In common* and a friendship between Mr.
Helmpel and me developed very fast. One time, while sitting together
we talked, saying, 'Nere are seals from Mexico. Here are seals from
Egypt. Here are seals from Mesopotamia. Evidently seals are known
the world over, so shouldn't we try to compare them?" We decided
that from now on I would look for countries and cultures that might
have Issued seals In a certain historical epoch. Wolfgang encouraged
me and helped me every way possible.
In the early years of our collaboration I got catalogs mainly
from London and Paris dealers. I very often found coins that fit
Into the series from Mr. von Aulock. These were somehow related with
Near Eastern seals as they were represented In the von Aulock
collection. Once In a while exceptions came.
Seals from Crete and Ecuador
Gans: I had to thank Mr. Albert Baldwin, from the London firm of Baldwin
and Sons, for one exception. An English consul from Crete had died.
He had a collection of Cretan seals. Cretan seals were much
earllei — all of the second millenlum — and Mr. Baldwin said the
collection contained a lot of Interesting pieces. Eventually, he
picked out about twenty seals which he assembled and bought for me In
one or two auction sales. So a new country. Crete, was represented
and there was one particularly rare Item.
The connection with Dr. Borage In Milwaukee lasted for a couple
of years. Once he wrote me a letter stating that he could get a
small set of seals from Ecuador, but unfortunately he had no money to
pay for It. So I made him the usual proposition that I would pay for
the whole collection* and that Borage could divide It Into two
shares — one for the museum and one for me. Naturally, that was
agreeable for both parties, but unfortunately* not much later, Mr.
Borage passed away In a car accident. Later I will mention Borage's
successor in another connection.
159
More on Felix Tlkotln and the Grosse Col lection
Cans: Now I come to the most pleasant story of all. I want to add more
about buying the Grosse Collection. It concerns our most Intimate
friends here In Berkeley. Professor Alexander "Sascha" Llebermann and
his wife. They were married on the last day of the year 1920, and
they always celebrated their anniversary at our home. Every year It
began with a very pleasant dinner that started at eight o'clock and
ended at ml dnlght.
I have already said that In the year 1965 I got a call from an
old friend, Felix Tlkotln. I explained that there was no competition
between us and everything could be good friendship. He Informed us
shortly after we became good friends, perhaps In the next year, that
In the year 1928 he would have a great exhibition of the collection
of Professor Grosse In Freiburg and In Brelsgau southern Germany.
Now I will tell the expanded story of Professor Grosse. As I said,
his specialty was Oriental china made In China* Japan, and Korea. He
had one benefactress who collected objects of art from these
countries and who asked him to get the finest and the best for her
col lection.
In the year 1907 she even asked Mr. Grosse to go to the Orient.
His first trip was to China (It may have been to Japan). Anyway, In
that same year he married a Japanese girl, and he stayed over there
until 1912. He came back to Germany with objects of art of all kinds
from all of these countries. His Excellence von Bode, so to say, the
"emperor" of all art In Germany, asked him to become the director of
the Chinese Museum In Berlin, but he politely refused. He replied,
"I will gladly collect for you. You can always have a choice of what
I consider valuable, but I am not the kind to be an employee."
The war came In 1914, and after the war he decided to go back to
the Orient. I don't know the date of his return, but he brought back
many objects of art. A few years later he died and his widow
approached my friend, Felix Tlkotln (we always called him "Tiki") to
ask him to arrange an exhibition and a sale of the art treasures,
mainly the large ones, because she had to find a smaller home. So
the art pieces were arranged In his exhibition rooms on the
Kurf urstendamm Ca major shopping street] In Berlin, a magnificent
exhibition of perhaps thirty or forty paintings, screens, and similar
art. This was a very good transaction for the widow, as well as for
'Tiki." I almost bought a beautiful winter landscape, but It was
beyond my means at that time.
160
Gans: We met regularly* and the good "Tiki" had another collection*
too — a collection of wine bottle labels. For every good wine he
drank he loosened the label and put It on the wall of his kitchen.
Incidentally* he was proud that he was born In the year 1893* the
best wine year In the whole century.
TIkotIn recognized Hitler's coming. Because of this* he went to
Holland* to Switzerland* and to America. He escaped everything — and
finally* he was the founder of the Japan Museum In Haifa* Israel* to
which he gave a great part of his art object stock and his own
col lection.
It was* as I told you before* the 31st of December In 1965 when
I got his telephone call. He said* "I am here. I have come from
Japan. I am on my way to Switzerland and Israel. I want to say
'hello1 and hear what you are doing." I told him that we were just
celebrating our friends' anniversary and to please come over to
celebrate with us* which he gladly did. During the evening he told
me about the smal I objects and seals to be sold. There were two jade
objects. There were Netsuke. There were seals and a little bit of
porcelain. Tiki" said he kept the Netsuke and the porcelain for
himself* leaving the seals and jade. I cried out* "And that Is just
what I collect. Send everything there Is." So al I of a sudden I got
probably the finest collection of seals anywhere* and It was
collected by an expert before the First World War. One can Imagine
what quality this collection comprised. In time the collection came.
Then I had to work out the descriptions. I wrote back to "Tiki"*
asking If he had some documentation that described all of these
things. I was aware that he could read Oriental languages. As I
told you earlier, I got a reply that stated that during World War II
the daughter had lost al I of the descriptions — a great loss.
Problems with Documentation of the Chinese and Japanese Seal
Col lections
Gans: A year or two later I came back to the museum In Milwaukee. Earl ler
In this taping I mentioned the death of Dr. Borage In an auto
accident. After his death, the new director came from a Chinese
museum In Chicago. I wrote to him and asked whether he would be
willing to describe the Chinese objects, and he — perhaps without full
awareness of the task— answered, "Yes."
So my collection of Chinese and Oriental seals was deposited in
Milwaukee. By chance, I had to do business in Chicago, and I used
this opportunity to drive over to Milwaukee, where I got personally
acquainted with Dr. Starr (that was the name of the new director).
161
Gans: Starr was a very nice man. In his office I saw my collection on the
table. Starr explained to me, "You see, I personally cannot evaluate
Chinese objects, but I always get visits from former colleagues and I
show them these objects. I find that one colleague describes this
and that Item, and eventually your collection will be readily
described — although In some time." It was a great disappointment for
me. This "time" could be fifty or a hundred years until everything
would be described. But I couldn't say anything. I said* "All right.
Try to get It as fast as you can. Perhaps you will be able to at least
get some of It described."
A year later I happened to visit one of my cousins who lives In
San Francisco. By chance she mentioned she had received a letter
from her nephew who was then In Taiwan.
More on Na Chl-Liang»s Catalog
Gans: I have already told you about how I got a catalog for the collection
of Chinese seals. But now I want to add more to the story.
By chance I heard about a Mr. Lee, a jeweler In San Francisco
with a small collection of Chinese seals, who had asked a Chinese
friend to write a catalog. I saw It and discovered that the friend
was called Na Chl-LIang. He was the curator of the Palace Museum in
Taiwan. I wrote to my relative asking him to find out If this Mr.
Na-Ch I-L lang, who some fourteen years earlier had written this
catalog, was still alive and around, and I was told he would be
coming to Minneapolis and that he would write a catalog for my
col lection.
That was a very pleasant surprise. I telephoned Dr. Starr in
Milwaukee and told him of the upcoming visit, and he laughed over the
telephone, "Oh, I know Mr. Na Chl-LIang very well. I visited with
him four years ago and we have become friends. I will Invite him to
come to Milwaukee over a weekend. He w 1 1 I be our guest and I'm sure
he'll arrange everything."
And so Indeed It happened. Over a week end, Mr. Na Chl-Liang
described the whole collection of Chinese and Japanese seals In the
Chinese language, with a few English notes. That was at least a step
closer to what was needed because the English explanations that he
got out of the dictionary were pretty clear.
A few months later, the collection was returned to me by Dr.
Starr. I had a meeting In Berkeley with Mr. Na Chl-LIang, and at the
same time I Invited Mr. Max Knight, who was an editor at the
University of California Press. I brought these two gentlemen
162
Gans: together at my home and from ten o'clock In the evening on, they
argued together about the correct translation of certain Chinese
words Into the English language. At the very end I had a wonderful
catalog for the whole Chinese collection — In Chinese as well as In
English. Thus ends the story of the Chinese seals, which probably
Includes the finest possible specimens of various metals and of great
taste. I remember Na Chl-LIang* who as the late director of the
Palace Museum, really knew what quality was. In some Instances he
described these Items as extremely rare and unusually beautiful.
More on the Mohenjo-Daro and Thailand Seals, and Exporting Treasures
Gans: Having the Far East very well represented, I looked for other seals.
As I told you earlier, by chance I got one of the rarest seals of
India from Mohenjo-Daro. It Is dated around 1500 B.C. Incidentally,
It came from a very fine London collection and It still has the name
In silver on the box It came In.
I also described how, quite recently, a new culture was
discovered In Thailand. From there, I got a few specimens from a
former collector who had lived In Thailand for a number of years
where he had studied the Thai language.
That brings me to a different point that I would like to
mention. These countries, such as north India, where Mohenjo-Daro Is
located, and Thailand, are eager to retain their excavated findings
In their own country. For that reason, all objects excavated had to
go Into the local museums. They are extremely rare in foreign
countries. Now, that Is the "fight" between a museum and a
university. Both want to have such objects exhibited In the museums
and the university doesn't allow these to be taken out of the shards
and other surroundings where they have been found.
One can understand both sides, but I think that science,
represented by the universities, comes first. Hence the fight.
There should be the possibility of an understanding from both sides.
Nowadays, the directorship of a museum lies In the hands of
administrators who want to show things — show pieces. They don't care
so much for the science. In years gone by, fifty years or more, the
directorship of museums was In the hands of experts for whom science
was the most Important part. Lefs hope that some understanding can
be found between both groups.
163
More on Acquisition of the Sasanlan Seals
Gans: Years went on and on and no seals showed up. The end of the life of
my wife and the story afterwards have already been reported. I never
thought that I would ever hear the word "seal" again, but I did.
That happened In 1983, when my friend. Professor Helmpel, told me
that he had heard that a big collection of Sasanlan seals would come
on auction In London. These were once the property of a London lord.
Heimpel said this would be a great enrichment for our collection, and
since this collection consisted of about three hundred fifty seals,
probably nobody would try to buy them and there was a chance of
gettl ng a bargain.
Helmpel telephoned the London auctioneer and I approached my old
friend, Albert Baldwin, to do the buying. Finally, we submitted our
bids to the auctioneer via Baldwin and Son. We had half luck and
half mis- luck, because we got four lots of altogether three hundred
thirty pieces, while the fifth lot, consisting of only fifteen
pieces — all of which were Important portrait seals — we did not get.
A representative collection of Sasanlan seals was something we
wanted. It was Important for the university, and particularly for
Professor Helmpel, to get an entirely different aspect when we got
over three hundred thirty seals from one country to add to the ten or
fifteen seals that were already In my original collection.
These seals are Important historically because the Sasanlan
Dynasty was the last dynasty In Persia. It ended In about 625 A.D.
It was succeeded by the Arabs. So historically, this period Is of
great interest. But our luck continued this year, 1984, when another
native of Persia, a Kurd, viewed the political situation over there
in Iran, and came with another collection of seals from northern
Iran. He showed it to Professor Guitty Azarpay, herself of Persian
origin, who could easily discuss every problem of an Importer. She
Is a great expert on this kind of art. She had the chance to see
this new collection consisting of one hundred seventy pieces, and to
look through It very carefully.
I had a chance to buy the thirty-two best seals. Again, through
our good luck, this Included ten portrait seals, Including a female
portrait, which Is extremely rare. When Professor Helmpel comes back
(he Is at the moment out of town), he will have the pleasure of
seeing a great collection of some three hundred fifty seals from this
Sasanlan Dynasty In Persia. Being myself close to ninety-seven years
old, I think this will be our last acquisition of seals. More and
more I have felt a closeness with the University of California. Now,
my planned gift of the seals will be one thousand or more In number.
They are securely stored In a university building — Evans Hall, and
all of my library on seals Is close-by and connected with It. It Is
now more or less agreed upon between Professor Helmpel and me that
164
Gans: all of the catalogs that exist (for those that don't exist — they will
find a new expert) will be collected and combined Into a new catalog,
to be known as 'The Collection of Edward Gans and his Heirs." The
heirs who will Inherit the col lection will leave It as a gift to the
university* where It belongs. I consider this an adequate closing
for this part of the report.
Some Thoughts on the IAPN and Collecting Seals
[Interview 16: August 9, 1984, no tapes]
[Mr. Gans spoke without questions from the Interviewer, Ora Huth]
Gans: A few words about my health. My eyesight Is worse. Recently, I have
been thinking about the letter written to the IAPN [International
Association of Professional Numismatists] officer In Paris, Michel
Kampmann.* Perhaps I should write him, asking for information on the
IAPN.
I am at the end of my activities now, and I want to write about
truths. I could sell part of my coin collection at high prices. I
feel I should not criticize the current boom In prices. Therefore,
what should I do? One thought Is to admit everything, and to write
about the exaggeration of everything. You should write that I am
blind and cannot write. What should I do?
I ask that you write a letter to the man In Paris, Michel
Kampmann. [Addressing Interviewer, Ora Huth] Tell him about my
having been a vice president. Check on a few important data about
Abe Kossof as president, at that time. Tell about the need for a
guarantee of genuineness and other rules being conceived. State that
I am blind and cannot review what will be Included in the oral
history. Ask him to check and perhaps add to the Information already
given on the IAPN.
Coins from ancient times have now become an Investment for the
wealthy. Acquisition Is only limited by the size of the pocketbook.
Collecting has been ruined by this change. I will not be able to
write an ending about the economy and Its effect on collecting.
•Assistance with funding Mr. Gans' oral history was sought In a
letter to Mr. Kampmann. No contribution was made.
165
Gans: The IAPN could write the final conclusion. I left out the
liquidation of my stock and the end of my business because I
recognized that old fashioned coin dealing and collecting was now an
Investment and gambling business. I abhor the economic developments
as to coins and the value of the dollar. The enthusiastic collector
of art and coins must abhor this development. Where we had wool and
silk — we now have polyester. Much has been lost. If the IAPN
president shares the same view he should please express It. It could
be In letter form.
Ask him If he shares my opinion. If he does* he could write a
letter to be Included In the manuscript. I can't do anything now but
sit. Be sure to underline "Investment" and "speculation." I hated
these. They have honored Dr. Jacob HIrsch as the Inventor of
numismatics. Later, It was always the price that mattered. You
don't hear anything about beautiful style any more. My friend*
Velay* always protected his coins because of their beauty.
As to my seals collecting* I'm ending with the seals already
collected. But yesterday a dealer was here with seals from Turkey*
Israel* Egypt* and Iran — with smuggled seals. Now the years of
liquidation of my coin collection brought some pleasures and a few
aggravations. I want silence to prevail — It was the time I enjoyed
growth of the seals collection.
The cataloging will take at least ten years more. Professor
Helmpel Is cataloging the Sasanlan seals.* Professor Helzer will
catalog the Indian and Thailand seals. All of this Is part of the
comparative slgl I lography that will take ten years.
One thing that has happened recently Is that I have begun taking
piano lessons. Jane Kolley Is the university professor who Is
married to Bruce McNal I of the Summa Gal lery. The gal lery lost a
six-page article by Robert Zahn, an English translation. There Is a
yearly account of the Berl In Museum. This was the account of the
year 1927. Four things bound together are lost.
When the war [World War II] broke out, I took my jewelry out of
Germany for safekeeping. It helped me get Into the coins and seals
and other collecting.
*The comparative si gl I lography catalog Is being compiled by Professor
Gultty Azarpay.
166
More on the Move to Seal Collecting
[Interview 17: December 20, 1984l#//
Gans: I told you earlier that in the middle of my seventies my health. In
general very good* began to suffer, and eye surgery became necessary.
This led to blindness. Now I cannot read and write any more. This
changed my life entirely. I have to thank the Lord that I can still
see the trees and the street. But I cannot see my own fingernails,
and I cannot read anything. At that point* as I said earlier, I had
to decide what to do with my great stock of coins. Lefs go on now
to the seals.
I had compensation for my troubles when I switched to the seals.
My experience In this field was literally miracle after miracle. And
the reader may enjoy a rather detailed story about It In this
respect. And for me It Is a wondrous experience to reawaken all
these facts. It had started with the von Aulock collection, which I
have discussed. The story was followed with my discussion with
Professor Edith Porada, which I have also mentioned.
My great Interest In the von Aulock Mesopotamlan seals, the
value of which was stressed by Professor Porada, was later shared
with Professor Ann Kilmer, who In turn Introduced me to the Near
Eastern studies department's specialist, Professor Wolfgang Helmpel.
Professor Helmpel Immediately encouraged me to follow up by adding to
the collection. Fortunately, In the 1960s and 1970s some of this
material appeared in London auction sales.
Huth: Which London house was that?
Gans: I will tell you about that shortly.
Earlier I told you about my friend, Albert Baldwin, who was a
great help. He followed the auction sales at Sotheby's, Christie's,
and other auction houses. We both perused the catalogs, and at my
request, over the years he bought a great many seals of similar
character. Most notable was a collection of seals from Crete that
came on the market, from which Mr. Baldwin picked out some interesting
material. One encounters Cretan seals rarely.
167
Fred Stress
Gans: Another close friend of mine whom I told you about In another
Interview Is Fred Stress. He was born In Egypt and Is an expert on
all Egyptian art. Also, together with Professor He!zer» he was on
excavations In Mexico. He currently works at the Lawrence Laboratory
of the University of California. Helzer died a couple of years ago.
At the time* he was a leading professor here at the university In
American and Mexican archeology.
Fred told me once that he was going to Egypt and I asked him,
"If possible, will you buy some seals for me?" On his return his
first meeting was with an old friend, a lady who had just lost her
husband — who had been a collector of seals. She asked him whether he
could help her liquidate her husband's seal collection.
He found additional material for me through an Egyptian dealer
In San Francisco. I had the good luck that one of the earl lest seals
was Included, dating from the Fourth Dynasty.
More on Acquiring Oriental, Mexican, Indian, and Sasanlan Seals ii
Gans: For me, every coin, every art object had to have a label with a
notation of everything that was known about It. I have told you In
detail about the second miracle that happened; securing a catalog for
the Chinese seals collection, written by a noted Chinese authority,
Na Chl-LIang. Mr. Na Chl-Ltang finished the catalog, with the
complete Chinese text translated Into English.
Later, I could enlarge this Chinese seals collection with the
help of a local friend, Louis Pappas, a well-known art dealer and
expert In many fields. He, In turn, had a friend, an old collector
of Japanese art pieces, who liquidated his collection of seals and
allowed me to pick out a number of the best (according to Na Chl-
Ltang) pieces.
As I said before, the next miracle, In an entirely different
field, occurred when Mr. Otto Frank In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, a
trustee of his local museum, sent me a copy of the museum magazine.
In glancing through this magazine, I found an article In which seals
from Mexico and other countries (but mainly Mexico) were mentioned,
and t was able to acquire a number of Mexican seals.
it
168
Gans: While this was already a kind of miracle* the miracle continued. An
old acquaintance from Germany had emigrated to Mexico/ establ Ished a
jewelry business* and by that time he became a collector of Mexican
art In general. His name was Mr. Stavenhagen. I had heard somewhere
that he had some fourteen thousand Items. The old acquaintanceship
with this person developed Into a real friendship. He evidently had
collected every kind of art piece except seals. I do not know why.
The most famous collector of Mexican seals was a Mr. Field.
Whether a friendship existed between them or not, I do not know.
Anyway, my friendship with Mr. Stavenhagen grew. Here and there I
got small parcels from him which were most welcome material. For
some reason unknown to me, his attributions and descriptions of the
seals were scanty. Then along came Professor Szlggy Helzer to help.
He contacted a Mexican authority and supplied a number of details
with which, finally, my friend Fred Stress was also of help.
I mentioned a number of miracles when I spoke about whole
collections. Similar miracles happened when individual or several
Items were acquired. I have already mentioned the Mohenjo-Daro in
India, the late acquisitions from the newly discovered Thailand
culture, and some other places. The reader of this oral history may
want to look through the catalog being developed by Professor Helmpel
[now Azarpay] to note the diversity of origins of the collection.
I think I should close with more on the most Important miracle
that has happened. About ten years later, In my ninety-sixth year,
Christie's wrote a letter to Professor David Stronach of the Near
Eastern Studies Department, U.C. Berkeley, about a forthcoming
auction of Sasanian seals. He showed it to Professor Helmpel, who
was Immediately Interested because there had never had an offer of a
big collection of these seals from a relatively small but Interesting
Persian dynasty. Wolfgang Heimpel convinced me that we should try to
buy It. We succeeded. But there was a misunderstanding. Christie's
spoke about a complete collection, but it was not complete. One
whole series of portrait seals was missing.
Several months later a Kurd came to Professor Gultty Azarpay
(Near Eastern Studies Department, U.C. Berkeley), and showed her a
another collection of Sasanian seals (of only a hundred seventy
pieces). Professor Azarpay knew, of course, of our collection and
had the great kindness to help us by Influencing the owner of the
collection to show It to her. She picked out some thirty Interesting
pieces, which included ten portrait seals which we had missed buying
In the previous purchase. All parties were happy. We had our
portrait seals, making a really complete collection. The original
owner got a fair price. The remaining one hundred forty pieces or so
were bought by the Lowle Museum.
169
Gans: Now, I promised that this was my last purchase, but It Is my
Intention that eventual ly the whole col lection w 1 1 I goto
U.C.Berkeley» to the Near Eastern Studies Department.
Later, I will write more about my disgust concerning speculation
and Investment. Originally, I should have said that there are two
kinds of coin dealers. One Is the kind like Jacob Hlrsch, Interested
primarily In the art value. The other kind are the thousands of
others who are members of the IAPN.
I'm afraid seals may go the same way, become mean and subject to
speculation. I'm the last of the old school. I have told the story
of NUFINA and the IAPN.
170
XVI MORE RECOLLECTIONS ON A LONG LIFE AS COIN DEALER, COLLECTOR,
FRIEND, AND FATHER
[Interview 18: January 8, 1985]#*
Gans: I have not quite finished the story of my life. To reawaken old
memories Is a great pleasure for me. Since I can still speak, the
story has not quite ended. And I feel an "afterword" should be
added.
We have entered a new year [1985] since I spoke the last words.
[The last Interview was on December 20, 1984] I am now blind. In my
mind, I constantly review the last half-century. I arrived at a not-
so-pleasant result. It Is the economic development, the events of
the dollar, that changed the aspect of art.
More on Collecting as an Investment
Gans: A few words about the coin trade: Around the turn of the century,
the coin trade was an amiable affair between collectors and dealers.
The leading dealers were recognized experts and could advise their
collecting friends, taking a reasonable profit. Before the First
World War, I believe it was In 1909, Dr. Jacob HIrsch In Munich
started to give his auction catalogs a broader scientific content.
After World War I, this was followed by his colleagues in Germany and
other countries. In following years, Dr. HIrsch moved to Paris and
Geneva, constantly refining his catalogs. Coin auctions became more
and more popular. With this came a stabilization of the coin market
on a reasonable basis.
After the Second World War a revival started slowly In Europe,
and the leading dealers recognized the necessity of an organization.
This led to the foundation of the International Association of
171
Gans: Professional Numismatists. When I arrived here In 1938 there was no
organization In the U.S.A., and the coin business In this country was
almost entirely limited to coins produced In this country. I was the
only one who limited his activity to antique coins and coins struck
prior to 1500 A.D., Including Renaissance medals.
In the fifties and the sixties coins fol lowed the art market and
prices skyrocketed. These coins became an Investment. For example*
In 1952 Professor Arthur Dewing* Boston* purchased from Jacob HIrsch
a rare Agrlgentum decadrachm for $7000. The Hunt brothers bought the
same coin a few years ago for one million dollars. On the same
evening Professor Dewing bought from me a beautiful Naxos tetradrachm
for $300. At an auction In the 1980s the same coin reached over
$150,000.
The old fashioned relationship and actual friendship between
dealer and collector has vanished. It has been replaced by an advice
given to an Investor.
For myself, I discovered the seal, having been guided In that
direction by Hans von Aulock and later by Professor Edith Porada.
For the last twenty years It was a great enjoyment that I could share
with the members of the Near Eastern Studies Department of the
University of California, and here especially with Professor Wolfgang
Helmpel. A new source for learning has been opened, and I expect
that this now rather comprehensive collection will become the
property of the university.
I know It Is vanity, but I cannot suppress the fact that I could
acquire and Include In this collection a group of three hundred fifty
Sasanlan seals at my age of ninety seven. May other acquisitions by
other peoples In behalf of science follow.
I am pretty sure that the gamblers [speculators] will, In due
course, develop the science of slgl I lography Into their new field.
But this Is a game between science and businessmen.
172
lections on I Ifestyle and the Need to Listen to the Heart
ti
Gans: My friend and Interviewer* Ora Huth* asked me on behalf of some U.C.
students how I could accomplish all of this. The only answer I can
give Is» "Ask the good Lord." I lived my ordinary life and tried to
do everything In an ordinary* uncomplicated way. I myself did
everything In a simple way» and I didn't exaggerate anything.
Huth: One of the questions they asked had to do with your diet. Are you a
vegetarian* or do you follow a special diet that Is different from
what you had In the past? You told me you do have a gymnasium where
you exercise.
Gans: I ate and drank everything. I believed In vitamins. I believed* In
the last years* In meditation. And most Important of all* when I had
Important decisions to make — In any way — I fol lowed my heart and not
my brain. Only this gave me peace of mind* and that I considered most
Important. I was never* In real Ity* driven by my conscience — period.
I asked my friend* Norman Davis* about this* and he said the same to
me. "When I made a mistake when I followed my heart* then It was all
right. But when I followed my brain and made some mistake* then I
blamed myself for not following my heart." I think that Is the main
thing In life for everybody. Follow your heart and you will always
say to yourself* "You did what you did." then forget It.
I had — I don't mind telling you and you will understand that I
will leave out details — three, four, five weeks ago* when I had my
eyes and my dizziness* and everything business-wise was more or less
settled* I wanted to end my life. I telephoned my doctor* Dr. MIcco*
to come to our regular lunch meeting and bring me my prescription so I
could take my pills* so I could take my life. The next day* I was
asked* "Did you call your doctor?" And the doctor had said, 'let's
talk It over before you do anything." That first made me almost blame
myself* "You change your mind every five minutes." And then I said
only that It was finally a decision that life was not easy for me.
And with my brain* here on this earth I have done enough. With my
heart* I have somehow a feeling there Is something left to do. And
so It was.
Dr. Mlcco and I had a wonderful understanding — what do you know?
If I had not worked a year with Natasha on her book — that will now be
the greatest success that has ever been made — a book like Tolstoy's
War and Peace, and that has been taken now for a year of promotion In
New York* Paris and London. She wrote It In English and translated
It herself. She speaks six languages. It Is cal led Lost Heritage,
173
Gans: and there are four volumes.* And the main characters are Princess
Tatlana and her Prince Stephan. The good Lord gives us what we have*
therefore I will continue to live on.
Recalling a Close Connection with Michael Sloan. In Postwar New York
[Interview 19: August 28, 1985]##
[Edward Gans' daughter, Lydla Gans, was visiting and present during
the Interview],
Gans: Today Is August 28th, Goethe's birthday.
Well, here In my library the other day a little book fell Into
my hands; old memories became awakened, and this Is the story of the
book. It happened after World War II, probably a year or two later.
A young boy came Into my place of business.
Huth: Where were you located?
Gans: At 101 West 55th Street in New York City. His name was Michael
Sloan. He was the grandson of Thomas A. Edison. He told me he was
Interested In ancient history, the art of the Greeks, and Greek
philosophy. The history of the Greeks fascinated him, and we had a
very pleasant conversation. A personal contact was established right
away.
He mentioned that his Interest extended to coins, and he asked
whether he could also see some coins. A few days afterwards, his
mother visited with me. She asked me to support her son's Interest,
saying that the parents wanted to encourage his coin collecting
activities, and that I should advise him In this respect.
From then on Michael visited me regularly, perhaps once or
twice a year, and In the course of a few years he had accumulated a
nice coin collection.
His Interests widened Into politics, not only In this country,
but In places all over the world that deeply interested him. It was
a few years later, In summertime, that he suddenly told me that he
was going to Europe, that he wanted to see Russia, that he was eager
to find out for himself what was going on in Europe. When he arrived
*Natasha Borovsky, Lost Heritage. Four volumes. Scheduled for
publ ication in late 1988.
174
Gans: In Vienna he visited the mountains nearby* and he went skiing.
Suddenly an avalanche came down, and he was burled under snow. A
valuable life had been extinguished.
Several months later I had a call from Michael's mother. She
told me that she had found a number of poems In Michael's desk. It
was a surprise for her because she didn't know anything about their
existence. The parents decided to collect them Into a little book
and she had brought me the copy. Here It Is, and you can take It
home and use It [gives the book to the Interviewer] for this history.
The story I told you she has written here In the preface, and that's
him [pointing to a page In the book].
Huth : That Is a photograph of him, and he must have been about the age of
that picture when he died.
Gans: I thought as a grandson of Edison It might be of Interest.
Huth: Yes, we can easily Include It In the supporting documents. According
to the story written here he died In 1949, and they published this In
1951. That's Interesting. Would you like to say something else?
-
The Important "Lucky Seven" Women
Gans: The "something else" I have to say Is maybe the key to my whole
story. It was a "lucky seven" of my mother that has carried over to
me. These are the seven Important women In my life In recent years.
These are the persons who played this distinctive role: Lydla Gans,
Natasha Borovsky, Lucy Kaplan, Roslyn Jamleson [naming the first four
of the seven].
Huth: Who Is Roslyn?
Gans: I never mentioned her, did I?
Huth: No.
Gans: Her husband Is a Dr. Jamleson. They are my neighbors. She Is just
getting her Ph.D. In art history degree from Stanford. She Is J±L£
authority on Rodin. At the beginning of her study I translated a
number of German authorities Into English for her, and she discussed
her research with me.
Then comes Carol Eisenberg, who gives me my piano lessons. She
Is not an average pianist, but a great musician. Her gift Is
fantastic. She teaches once a year at DC.
175
Huth: Are you saying that you think she has a special gift for teaching?
Gans: For teaching and for dancing and for improvising and for a feel Ing of
music. She Is really extremely gifted.
Huth: You said that along with your piano that you are studying
composition. Is that with her?
.
Gans: Yes.
And then comes Jul le Provost* who Is working as a secretary at
the eye clinic here at U.C. Berkeley. She has helped me so much. In
a moral sense she helped me get over my troubles. She is a devout
Catholic* and she Is for peace* for helping* helping* helping.
The seventh one Is Polly Horn. She Is a specialist In holistic
medicine* In preventing sickness. That Is my entourage* that Is my
life since Asya left me. That's the last one* I hope* at least.
Huth: Now as to Polly* you need to say just a little bit more about who she
Is.
Gans: Polly Horn. In her early years she lived with her mother and
grandfather. She lost her father when she was two years old. Her
grandfather was a professor at Harvard* and thafs a very wel l-known
family In the East* on both her father's side and her mother's side.
Huth: You said that she has been helping you here — that she has been a
great help to you since she moved in with you.
Gans: Absolutely. I couldn't exist without her.
Huth: In what way Is she helpful?
Gans: Dr. MI ceo wanted me to have somebody around and the good Lord brought
Pol ly here to me. She takes care of me In the best way — Incredibly.
So I am surrounded by females who are between ages forty and sixty
years.
Huth: That's right, these are all wcmenl
Gans: But that's not to forget the daughters of Lucy, who are not forty —
who are twenty.
Huth: We had some additions we were going to make to your oral history as
we conclude our Interview sessions. Shall we get Into that now?
176
The Life-Fulfilling Events to Come: Request to Postpone This Oral
History's Completion
Gans: Well, let us postpone everything because I hope that six months from
now everything will be more speakable. I expect Natasha's success, I
expect Lucy's success, and I expect. In the order of happening,
Lydla's success. And Roslyn's book on Rodin will come out and all
the other things that can happen will be known. On all of that
depends when I will close my life story.
Huth: You said Roslyn's book will come out.
Gans: Yes, she has written what was supposed to be her doctoral thesis, but
It will be the book on Rodin.
Huth: WIN It be published by Stanford University?
Gans: By Stanford, I hope. It's not ready yet, and for that reason I don't
want to speak about hopes until It really has happened.
Huth: I don't think we can postpone completing this oral history. Do you
think you will want to add something else In six months?
Gans: Yes, to finish the story.
More on Natasha's Novels
Gans: I would like to wait until the book by Natasha comes out and has, I
hope, lots of success. It has already been accepted In England,
France, Germany, Scandinavia, and Italy.
Huth: In all of those languages, too?
Gans: The book, or books, will be translated In all the languages, yes.
She will probably translate the French edition herself. But It Is
all In the making. The publisher Is Holt, Relnhart, and Winston.*
[Mr. Gans' daughter, Lydla Gans, brings in a copy of the book and
says, "That's a prepubl Icatlon copy."]
*Borovsky, A Daughter of the Revolution.
177
Gans:
Huth:
Gans
Huth
Gans
Huth
Gans
Huth
Gans
That Is one of the prepubllshed three thousand copies* only for
distribution among all the book dealers In this country.
Obviously. It's to promote the sale and to get orders. I didn't know
they did It that way. That's a good Idea for a book like that.
It will not only be this book. It will be a trilogy. She Is writing
now on the next one. It will comprise over a thousand pages* so It
will be two volumes. Then she Is writing another one based on the
Russian and Polish revolutions and it Is a companion, so to say. to
War and Peace, by Tolstoy. To my mind, it Is as great or greater
than Tolstoy's work.
The book's jacket has a little article on the back about the author.
[Lydla Gans comments. "I think that's for reviewing. Isn't It?"]
Yes. It's probably what they do. so they can give It a review.
She has created characters who behave as human beings should be.
It has a very nice Illustration on the front, too. Well, she must be
very happy with that, and you had a lot to do with this.
We worked together for several years. She was sitting here every
evening, and I read the draft version. Then I commented on It. and I
asked Natasha to explain It to me and so on. It was not really that
I assisted In actual writing, but In discussions about It. And when
we get together now. It's to discuss only what did Stephen say to
Tatlana and so on. In connection with changes for the published
versions. In Natasha's novels Tatiana Is a woman who Is the ideal of
a real princess, who becomes a medical doctor, and who Is finally
murdered or tortured by Russian people working for the revolution.
Is a lot of It based on fact — on actual history?
Every historical event is 100 percent truth, but the characters
themselves are fiction. For all of the history of what takes place
In the novels, she collects every material fact needed and
establishes the truth of It.
Remarkable Care From Polly Horn
Huth: One other person whom you mentioned today and the last time I was
here, and that it would be very nice to have something more on the
tape about — Is Polly Horn and what she has done for your health. You
told me that she has helped you.
178
Cans: Yes, with diet and with movement, with massage, and with going for a
walk, and with the way she encourages me and says, "Don't eat that,"
and "Don't be worried*" and "I will take care of that," and "I will
bring you today to an outside area," that I had never seen before In
Til den Regional Park. She fixes me my nightcap, and she knows how
the nightcap should be composed— what special Ingredients It should
have.
Daughter Lydla's Invitation to China
Gans: Now comes Lydla. She has been Invited to go and teach mathematics
in China.
Lydla: That's something I've wanted very badly to do.
Huth: Where will you teach?
Lydla: At Sheljlang University. I don't have It in writing yet. I just
spoke to the man a couple of weeks ago. He was here In California.
Ifs In Sheljlang Province In Hangchow, which is not too far from
Shanghai. Ifs a gorgeous city. Do you know Hangchow? That's one
of the top tourist places.
Huth: I have heard of It.
Lydla: Yes, It's lovely. And It's supposed to be a very good university.
Huth: Will It be for a year?
Lydla: No, I'm only going for three months. I didn't want to get that far
away for that long from my father. It's too hard to telephone to
China, so I said for just one quarter.
Huth: So when will that be?
Lydla: A year from now. Fall quarter. Where I teach, we're on the quarter
system. I haven't told you all this either, Daddy. The way it's
arranged I would go there and spend a week or two getting adjusted
and then teach an eight-week seminar. Then they will allow me to
travel around the country, which is what they do with their guests
over there, so I would get a chance to see other parts of China.
I've been there before, on a tour, and Ifs something that I wanted
very much to do — to go back and teach there. I'm excited about that.
Gans: I'm sure she was recently In Western Samoa for a month, and she was
six months In Hawaii, and doing research In both places.
Polly Horn, Edward Cans' good friend, 1986,
179
Lydla: I travel a lot. We go through a traumatic thing each time I gol
[laughter] But I go al I over the world and I travel often.
More on Adopted Daughter/ Lucy
Gans: That's Lydla. Now her sister, Lucy* Is working at the jail In
Martinez. That's one of six jails In this country In the modern
style. She Is teaching painting and she brings them music, and now
she brings them photography and encourages them. So every one of my
children does something for mankind, and that Is what I am so proud
of. I don't do anything; It's their Idea to do all this, [laughter]
It's not the case that she would take more care of her father. No.
It's all for mankind. But that Is, on the other hand, helping
people, and I am happy about it, and I I Ike to encourage It.
Polly Horn's Special Care
Huth: Well, you obviously have good care here.
Gans: And for that reason now comes Polly. Now, I am a taker. As I see
It, Polly gives me everything.
Huth: You said something about a problem you had, from when you were a
little boy — a problem with your neck that she helped you with? You
had a neck that wouldn't turn.
Gans: Yes, she was the "doctor." Polly brought me to her chiropractor and
she Is also encouraging the chiropractor In what she does. And the
best help Is massage for heal Ing my neck. I lie down for the massage,
and this she does In the other room, but when I sit here she comes and
rubs me here, on my neck, and that helped me. The problem Is gone.
Huth: Yes, you're able to move your head now. I noticed that.
Gans: And the trouble I had here [points to his shoulders], this has
disappeared completely.
Huth: You're standing up stratghter. I did notice that — much taller.
Gans: That's all encouragement and help from Polly. Physically and
mentally I'm a different person. And thanks goes to all the seven In
their own way.
180
Reflecting on Life at Age NInetv-ElQht
Cans: I would like to have Lydla here every day, but I have to let her be
away to do something for mankind.
Huth: That's right.
Gans: I have a connection with what she Is doing. It Is like an extension
of me. That makes me happy/ especially the satisfaction that I can
be something at the end of my life.
Huth: You do have a connection with what she does.
Gans: We also are as close as can be. I am healthy again.
Huth: How old are you now?
Gans: Ninety-eight.
Huth: Ninety-eight. And that was yesterday on August 27, 1985?
Gans: Yesterday. Yes. Recently I went through my library and I found
Michael's [Sloan] book, for the story I told you today. It came back
to me.
Huth: Well, I'm glad we added that.
Gans: I think everybody might be Interested in Thomas Edison and in his
grandson.
•
Huth: Oh yes, I think so.
Gans: He was really a fantastic boy, and you will read what his mother
writes here in the short foreword.
Lvdla's Thoughts on her Father's Caring Philosophy
Lydla: Do you have a place for other people's comments? Is the oral history
going to Include an Introduction or something?
Huth: It will have a preface and an Introduction, and that would be the
place for comments by other people. If you have something that you
woul d I Ike to put In wrltl ng, woul d you I Ike to do that? Or do you
want to put It on the tape by saying It now?
181
Lydla: Yes. I sort of generally thought about It and never formulated It
too well* but the secret* or part of the reason* at least* for my
father having all these people around him Is because he's so
supportive* you know. And he's so strong In confidence* and In his
giving support and positive reactions to people's work. It's been a
wonderful thing for me* and I'm lucky to have a father like that.
Huth: That's probably been his approach through his lifetime* and one
reason why he's lived to age ninety-eight.
Lydla: Yes* because most parents aren't like that. Most parents tend to be
critical. I noticed It with Lucy* he'd say* "Come on* you can do It»
It's good*" you know I He did the same with Natasha* and that's been
a nice thing to have.
Closing the Story on Seal Collecting
Huth: How are they progressing on the collection of seals at the
university?
Gans: I just wrote the last codicil Cto his will] the other day directing
that the collection on my part Is left to the university* and Lydla
will also give her part* In memory of me* to the university. So the
whole collection will be the property of U.C. Berkeley. Only the
seals.
Lydla: That whole seal collection. Apparently part of It Is In my name.
it
Gans: My seal collection started out with five hundrd pieces and now It has
one thousand pieces* roughly speaking* of course. So Lydla had five
hundred pieces. That was established at that time* and I've bought
mostly Sasanlan [Persian] and Indian seals since then. So Ifs now
what Professor Helmpel and I Intended It to be* and that's one of the
requirements. It Is given on the condition that a catalog be written
on the topic: comparative slgl I lography* a book of knowledge about the
seals. It's called The Collection of Edward Gans* Berkeley* 1887-so-
and-so. And the catalog has to be a complete catalog* with
Illustrations and complete descriptions. And* happily* I agreed to
make a gift of them. The collection Is worth so-and-so much* I guess
around $300,000 to $400,000. That has to be upheld by appraisal If
the Internal Revenue Service wants It, or perhaps the university will
want to verify It. It has to be established — the exact amount of
value has to be estimated.
182
Gans: My Idea Is this. I have nothing In mind to work with museums* and I
have everything In mind to work with learning Institutions like
universities. This Is my wish, to help with what students will need
to know about the seals for the next one hundred years, on the basis
of the catalog that Dr. Helmpel will write.* He Is a great scholar
and a great human being, far above average In knowledge and
conception of what's going on.
Huth: WIN It take several years to complete that catalog?
Gans: Yes. It will take about ten years until the catalog will be
finished. That part of the collection coming from Lydla had an
Impression for each seal so you can see what Is on the seal.
Otherwise you can't see the detail. Any student or any dilettante
cannot really conceive what Is engraved Into a stone. It has to be
shown In an Impression that can be studied. And then It has to be
photographed In both ways, the original and the Impression. And for
many of the seals you want to establ Ish the material, the geology.
They're made of various kinds of stones, or ceramic. I don't know
all of the materials, such as porcelain, glass, obsidian, and a
hundred different kinds of carnel Ian — all kinds of stones. All of
that has to be establ I shed. Thafs a great, great task, but don't
forget that It provides study material for hundreds of scholars, and
for the first time ancient seals from Europe can be compared with
seals from Japan and Ecuador. In each country they have collections.
For example, In Japan there are hundreds of collections of seals
made, even In Rome, In Paris, In Munich. But there Is no collection
comprising comparisons of total specimens from one time period to
another. There are seal s from 500 B.C. and 1200 A.D. It will all be
combined In one book.
It Is the work of Wolfgang Helmpel to stress this possibility,
and he will see to It that once the catalog Is created, the
university will find people who will enlarge th is col lection of one
thousand seals so It will eventually comprise five thousand or ten
thousand seals. It was always a miracle that these seals came to me.
Whether Helmpel will write that, I don't know.
Huth: Well, If he doesn't write It, Ifs In your oral hlstoryl So Ifs
there.
Lydla: [To her father] Well, you always talk about miracles, but I always
say you make them happen yourself.
* The catalog Is now being compiled under the direction of Professor
Gultty Azarpay [May 1987].
183
Cans: There exists one set of books in my library* MInoan, I believe, about
the selge of the time of the Trojan War and Greek seals. So that
concerns seals only In these two cultures of Greece and Crete. The
set had, I believe, six or possibly eight volumes, small volumes. It
covers seals of these two cultures, located In collections In New
York* In Paris, In Munich, and many other places. Three or four
volumes were collected since, and I hope Helmpel will use your
I Ibrary to get them al I. The cost of each volume at that time was
two hundred marks. That was a lot of money. I spent a lot of money
for my library. The library also goes to the university. I have the
books written by Professor Fleltflnger, which I originally bought for
fifty or one hundred dollars, with the current value estimated at two
thousand dollars for three volumes. So everything Is crazy now for
that reason.
This collection of seals that I bought last year, I bought for
close to ten thousand dollars. That came out to about thirty dollars
a seal. Who would have thought we could buy three hundred sixty
seals from Persia for this amount, nearly ten thousand dollars?
Actually, I could buy them for thirty dollars each at an auction at
Christie's I n London.
Huth: Because you took the whole collection?
Gans: I bought the whole collection. But Helmpel was Interested because It
was three hundred pieces. That gives the Department of Near Eastern
Studies a look at the whole culture, with these three hundred pieces.
Huth: Would you say that only a university would be that Interested?
Gans: Only a university, and I was there to buy it. The university
wouldn't spend ten thousand dollars.
Huth: Or they'd have to have a lot of paperwork before they did ItJ
Gans: These seals that I bought would cost much more If purchased
separately. I got fifty thousand dollars worth or more. I don't
want to go Into details. So now Helmpel has a complete collection
from the Sasanlan dynasty.
Huth: He must be very happy with that!
Gans: Ifs Incredible. All of these seals came to me. I did not run after
them.
Huth: But you knew what to do when you found them.
Gans: Yes, when they came. And this privilege that I had — call It a
miracle — I want the university to have, because I love the
university.
184
More on th« Rift of Philosopher Felix Mautner's Works
Gans: There Is one other little thing. Have you heard of Nicole who had
the dress shop called Nicole's* on Telegraph Avenue?
Huth: Yes.
.
Gans: Nicole was a good friend of mine* and her husband* Dr. Alsberg» was
the authority on Mexican art, but he died three years ago. At the
funeral memorial event* Nicole Invited me as an old friend of her
husband* and she also Invited a professor of philosophy at the
university* her professor* because she herself was studying
phi losophy.
By chance I sat next to the professor. At the time I didn't
understand the name* naturally. We came to talk about philosophy and
he said he was Nicole's teacher. I mentioned the name of Fritz
Mautner. Mautner's works were In my library* on the top shelf.
So I mentioned that when I was twenty years old I collected all of
the works of Professor Mautner.
Three years later Professor Hans Sluga* from the philosophy
department* said to Nicole* his student, "At the funeral event at
your home I met a certain Mr. Gans and he spoke about Mautner. Could
you ask him whether he would sell me a ten-volume set of books that
he has?" She asked me, and I said* "No* I won't sel I them." It was
only Involving books I considered to be worth about five thousand
dollars. I called Nicole up the following week and said, 'Tell Mr.
Sluga I will give him my ten volumes. I will give these three works
from Mautner to the university." He said* "If you give them to the
university* they will have It* but I want to have It. If you give it
to them they will sell It again for whatever money It will be worth."
I said* "I don't want them. Then I will do this. I will give them
to you personal ly» and what you Intended to pay, you will pay to Dr.
Helmpel so Helmpel can buy seals. I do not want to sell the books
for money."
So he will pay Helmpel a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars*
whatever he thinks these books are worth. Maybe they are worth ten
thousand dollars. I don't know. I don't want to have money for
them. I want to make good what your chancellor did for you by paying
for part of my oral history. That was my Intention.
He now has the books* and he brought me to his study* and then
he told me this: He especially teaches Professor MItklnstel n's
philosophy here at U.C. Berkeley* and Mltklnsteln always mentions
Fritz Mautner In his own writings. So Sluga got Interested In
Mautner. These are fantastic works that I read when I was twenty
years old. That was my Interest. Then Professor Sluga got these ten
185
Cans: volumes from me and five others I also gave him* and Lydla has other
volumes of Mautner's works.
Lydla: I have three volumes.
Cans: And the rest I gave to the Leo B&eck Institute. So when It comes to
money — coin books I'll sell, that's business. But all of the other
books have to be given away.
Professor Sluga Is now the head of the philosophy department of
the university. Naturally, I like to help U.C. Berkeley. I meant to
help your department, but nothing came out of It. But anyway,
Helmpel will eventually have the privilege, whenever Professor Sluga
sends the money for the ten volumes. Sluga said he had been writing
all over the world trying to find the volumes I gave him. He wanted
to purchase them, but he couldn't find them. Evidently, only the
university and I had the books, and the Leo Boeck Institute. Leo
Boeck got al I of the first prints of the other books I gave them, but
they already had Mautner's works. Mautner was a great, great
philosopher. Fantastic.
Huth: Does the university already have that? Is that why he thought they
would sel I It?
Gans: That's what he said to me.
Huth: Because I think that would be very unusual If they would sell
something that valuable.
Gans: And if not, they would be placed In the rare books department, and
probably they could not be lent out permanently to the professor.
And that is something that he had to have. Imagine It, ten volumes
that belong to him. They are not translations. They're all in
German. And Hans Sluga speaks German.
Huth: Was he from Germany?
Gans: No. I guess he's from Yugoslavia or somewhere near there.
Natasha's Second Novel: A Remarkable Romantic Storv
Huth: Do you think we're going to have anything else to add today? [Gans
shows a book] That's the book, Natasha's book?*
*Borovsky, A Daughter of the Revolution.
186
Gans: That1 s the book, [by Natasha Borovsky] Here Is the chronology and
the map. The map of the whole revolution Is 100 percent history.
The revolution In Russia and the revolution In Poland. And this Is
the history of the time of the Nazis just one hundred years later.
These characters that Natasha has created are absolutely the Ideal
you want to see In a woman and a man. These two and a I I of the other
characters are perfectly genuine — the professor* a noble* big fellow/
and his assistant* and all of the relations* the daughters and so on*
fantastic.
Lost Heritage, thafs the second book that will come out.* In
the story* what Is so complicated Is that the son of Tatlana Is
adopted by her former beloved friend who was In the war. He was
supposed to have been killed In an airplane* and finally* after
months* he was found alive. So In the meantime* she married this
professor. How the love affair between these two people Is continued
Is absolutely the Ideal way of carrying on this story.
Lydla: It's a totally* absolutely romantic story* and he loves Itl
Huth: Sounds great. Now* has that one been pub I I shed?
Gans: That Is going to be the memoirs of what happened before. She Is now
writing again* Lost Heritage.
Huth: Oh, she's writing that.
Gans: It was already written. I have the original draft of the four
volumes here. Now the publishers say — not what all of the other
publishers said — "Shorten It." They say* "We want to have It
enlarged from five hundred pages to one thousand pages."
Huth: And It will be a sequel to this?
Gans: That Is a sequel* chronologically speaking. In her writing* she
wrote It the other way around. She wrote the story* Lost Heritage.
first, and ±ha± later. But the publisher said we have to do this
chronologically. The f Irst vol ume w 1 1 I comprise ttie Spanish
Revolution* Franco and so on. That's already been produced by
Natasha, secretly preserved somewhere. That I do not know about.
Huth: Well, that Is very Interesting. So shall we end this Interview now?
Gans: Yes.
*Borovsky, Lost Heritage
1 87
XVII ADDENDUM TO MY ORAL HISTORY
[During the recording period and twice after the final recording on
August 28, 1985, Mr. Gans would have thoughts he wanted to Include.
He self-recorded those thoughts, which are added here by date of
recording as an addendum to his oral history.]
December 5, 1984
Dealing With Dealers and Museums
Gans: How to write this last chapter I am not sure. No-one can advise me
so I will do the best I can. In the past when I had unilateral
correspondence with potential clients. Numismatic Fine Arts was at
Its height and I had better health.
As for my eyesight, for five years I suffered with only a slight
visual conception. Now, from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. I can do nothing.
Last week, I bought a good radio that gives me something of Interest
from the outside world. Today, family and friends come and stay to
visit about an hour. That Is mine, but during the other hours I am
alone.
Experiences during the last twenty-five years were the most
unpleasant In my life. I need to find delicate words for ugly
actions. My last words for this oral history will note that I
despise the hunt for the dollar and the manipulations connected with
artifact collecting. I will add a few words on this subject. On
tape I will not criticize the behavior of others — through which I
suffered. This was encountered through my colleagues.
Baldwin's (founded In 1800) and Splnks, both In London, and a
Mr. Frank Kovacs In San Mateo, were and are the only dealers I trust.
Kovacs Is an expert In coins. He was employed by Leo Young In
Oakland, where he handled classical coins. Then he opened his own
firm. He also dealt with books on numismatics. I suggested he carry
188
Cans: out his business on his own, out of his home. Instead, he had his
business on Geary Street. Later, he told me he was sorry he had not
followed my advice. He recently bought a house on the Peninsula, In
San Mateo, and he has just been married. He should come to talk to
you [the Interviewer]. Mr. Kovacs shares my opinion on the new
Numismatic Fine Arts.
The art business, especially In antiques, coins, etc., has been
a friendly kind of business, not the kind seen In Macy's and other
similar businesses. Now there Is chiseling for prices and on
everything. I want to say that It Is below my dignity to go Into
detail about the way business Is done now. I don't want to have
anything to do with It.
I like to support learning and teaching activities, and I have
no desire to associate with the business of coin dealing now. The
University of California's activities have spread In this more
pleasant direction, while the museum administrators generally were
able to get money for their pursuits through social connections, for
publicity and financial gain purposes. The coin dealers stick
together through the International Association of Professional
Numismatists that has the power. They make rules. They meet In
Singapore and such places.
Here Is a book titled, Wealth of the Ancient World: The Nelson
Bunker Hunt and Will Ian Herbert Hunt Collection. Klmbal I Art Museum,
Fort Worth, 1983, published In association with Summa Publications.
I suggest you ask the Hunts for money for my oral history. You must
ask for more than four thousand dollars, otherwise It is like asking
for pennies. They do good with their money, but In a clouded way.
I am ol d fashioned — from an older time. In German they have a
term for It: "below dignity." The Summa Gallery can spend five
thousand dollars for a dinner, but they cannot pay for the
contribution to this oral history that I asked for.
As to the seals collection. It began with the story about Hans
von Aulock — and Edith Porada, who encouraged me. Later, I talked
about Otto Frank, a trustee of the big museum In the capital city
of Wisconsin, a coin collector and a good friend. I visited him.
What has happened to collecting Is so tragic. Everything Is
priced higher and higher. When the catalog on my collection Is out,
there will be a run on seals. It will show how Important they are.
I don't want one seal to cost $20,000. This Is terrible Inflation.
I don't fit Into this time very well. I am too old for It.
My former friend In Europe, Herbert Cahn, disappointed me, too.
I wrote to him about two of my gold medals. He said they were worth
$20,000 In French francs. Then, later, he said they didn't bring
this price — that he only got an offer for $10,000 francs, so he
189
Gans: didn't sell them. I wrote him agreeing that It was best not to sell
them. Then* six weeks later I got a letter stating that an employee
had sold the medals for $10,000 francs. Herbert Cahn now says that
was the right thing to do. All of this Is ugly and not done In a
moral way. Now I think Herbert Cahn would tell me I was being old
fashioned. The old Hamburg way would condemn this — but not the new
Hamburg way. Everything Is liberalized. Decency In business Is seen
as a gentleman's activity. Ninety-nine percent of the others In the
IAPN would call me an outsider. Professor Helmpel supports me, but
he understands the other way of doing things. Mr. Mitchell, at
Baldwin's, understands what I am saying.
The University of California should consider whether they want
to go with modern times — or keep the old times going. It has to do
with decency and noble old fashioned values, actions, and opinions.
Among the university's trustees, you will find both kinds
represented. There Is a lady, Ms. Anderson, who is English and In
the Greek Department, and who Is trustworthy. Professor Darryll
Amyx, In the Art Department, and Mr. Miller, the excavator, are
gentlemen. The Hunts probably gave Mr. Miller five thousand dollars,
and I gave him fifty dollars, for his excavating projects.
A lady named Charlotte called me about her husband's Japanese
collection. She said she had seen Mr. Moulter, who was the new
Numismatic Fine Arts (NUFINA) boss, but Is now an employee.
June 18. 1985
More on Deal Ing with Dealers and Museums
Gans: There are a number of changes In my I Ife. I now have Polly Horn
living In my house and giving me holistic care.
In thinking about the oral history I dictated, we both worked
hard, but I cannot read what has been said and translated. Therefore
I want to end with a discussion of the last ten years, I now need to
speak about the number of coins bought for three dollars and later
sold for five dollars, and that are now selling for three hundred
dollars and five hundred dollars. This Is for the most common coin,
the Alexander. Now, the most common gold coin sells for ten thousand
dol lars.
A normal dealer couldn't continue In business. He would need to
have and use bank credit. I never had bank credit. I never said
"thanks" to the purchaser, only "thanks" to whoever was selling a
"piece to me. They did a favor to my customers In selling to me.
190
Gans: After Lydla left I often helped others. Now Polly Horn Is giving me
back care — In much the same way that I gave to others.
Natasha Borovsky's book* to eventually be four volumes, Lost
Her I tage. Is almost out to book dealers. It Is fantastic. I read
the proofs. I also went with her to Los Angeles to talk with the
publisher. They said to shorten It. She Is married to a man with
connections to the San Francisco Chronicle. The book Is about a
Princess Tatlana and a Price Stefan* the main characters. A second
book will be based on the memoirs of princes. Holt* Relnhart, and
Winston Is the publisher. They're based In New York. The book Is
part of a trilogy* and It will be a selection for the Book-of-the-
Month Club.
My adopted daughter* Lucy* has her painting work. She continues
with her work at the Martinez jail* where she teaches painting. She
Is also studying psychology. I'll talk about my daughter* Lydla* as
a postscript. Now* I will tell you about Lucy's daughters* Justine
and Meagan.
Justine has graduated from Tufts College* Massachusetts* where
she was a theater student. She graduated magna cum I aude. She has
had many roles In theatrical productions and has work performing In
commercials. Now* she is going for graduate studies. This is in
Boston. Meagan* the youngest, Is spending eight months traveling In
Europe, Africa, Egypt and Rome. Now she wants to go to Israel.
I am continuing my piano lessons on most Sundays, but sometimes
on Monday or Saturday. Carol Eisenberg Is my teacher. She teaches
In the dance and music departments at U.C. Berkeley. I am also doing
some composing. I wrote some music for a poem by Natasha. I play my
pieces In all variations, although one finger gives me a problem.
I am also having chiropractic treatments with Ginny Howe. They
are real ly helping me. When I was eight years old I got a stiff
neck. This was in 1894, when my father and brothers died. The
doctor came to our home and my mother said, "Please look at Edward.
He complains of a stiff neck." I said, "Look at me. I can't turn my
head." When the doctor tried to turn It, I yelled. The doctor said,
"Your son Is having a fantasy." In 1950 I still couldn't turn my
neck. The chiropractor has relocated my neck bones and the muscles.
I can use my neck now. [Demonstrates]
Polly Is like a miracle. I am a different person. Everyone is
now different, Including what I have said about people In other
Interviews. What I said about Natasha and Lucy— you should change It
and move It to the end. [This section was not moved.]
191
Cans: Earlier I told you about an Important book that was lost In 1982 by
the Summa Gallery. They couldn't find It, and It was almost as
valuable as the jewelry. They found the book recently and returned
It.
I had a deal for selling coins through a Swiss bank* Bank Leu.
The director came here. He picked out four hundred coins. I sell
about five thousand dollars worth each year, starting with the most
common coins. They sold a gold coin from Egypt for a thousand
dollars, although It Is worth much more.
There are still some good coin dealers: Sotheby's, Christie's
auctioneers, Splnks (general art — established In the year 1670) and
their coin departments. Baldwin's Is still good. These are the
continental dealers. Coins became an investment material, growing In
value from a hundred dollars to a hundred thousand dollars, even to
two hundred thousand dollars. It Is all speculation. Only a larger
firm can do this kind of business. There are mostly merchant dealers
now for Investment purposes only.
Museum administrators have become a problem, too. For example,
Mr. White, of the De Young Museum. Some of my worst experiences have
been with museums.
As to my seals col lection, the catalog will take ten years to
complete. It takes about one month per seal.
Everything Is going up in value. It Is also changing with
seals. Over the years, they couldn't be sold. Now they are selling
for three hundred dollars to five hundred dollars each, where once
they were considered valueless. If you put a high price on it,
someone may want It.
As I sal d earl ler, Pol ly Is studying hoi Istlc medicine and diet
at Kennedy University. She makes sure that I eat vegetables; no
coffee, except decaffeinated; no sugar; no chocolate; and no alcohol,
except a little wine on special occasions. Then we watch for the
body responses. Every morning I go up and down eighty steps
(actual ly four times up and down twenty steps). She has taught me
how to breathe, lifting the rib cage.
Norman Davis calls me every week, as if we were brothers. His
wife died one or two years after Asya died. He's ten years younger
than I am, so he Is eighty-seven years old now, and In good health.
He gave his collection of paintings to the Seattle museum. Recently,
he gave them a $35,000 Greek vase, In what was a tax savings for him.
He collected beautiful things and gave them to the museum. Now he is
an honorary citizen of the City of Seattle. He flies to London twice
a year. He was born In England and he came here In 1938. He settled
In Seattle, where he went into the brewery business and became a
192
Gans: collector and a student. He was the director of the art exhibition
at the Seattle World's Fair. He was also the author of eight books.
I will make a gift of these books to The Bancroft Library.
As to my house in Berlin* called the Fried lander Fuld, It was
the first house on Unter den Linden street. That is where my bank
was located* the Deutsch Landerbank.
In the last ten to fifteen years I wrote a book on Goethe's
medals. It took four or five years' work to complete It. Actually*
It was like play. I also played with my seals, the Sasanlan seals.
Then Gultty Azarpay got the last thirty seals, the second batch. The
first batch came from Christie's. The last batch came from the last
Persian dynasty. I recently gave Professor Helmpel two more books
and I bought him another ancient seal* also.
Now* as to the Fritz Mautner books — Mautner was born In Prague.
He was the editor of the Berl Iner Tagap I at [the day's newspaper]. He
wrote novels, poems, stories* and he was Interested In philosophy.
The Rich brothers built him a big house at Bodensee* on the border
with Switzerland. He wrote three phi I osop lea I works: The Critique
of Language. The Dictionary of Philosophy, and four vol umes on
Morgan! and (concerning Eastern Europe). They were written In plain
German. I bought them when I was twenty years old. Die Futur, under
Maximilian Harden* published political articles and excerpts of
articles of Interest* Including six to eight pages on Mautner. It
may be I n the U.C. I I brary. I had more books* but I gave a
collection of the writings of Mautner to Lydla* and the others to the
Leo Baeck Jewish library In New York.
Museums tend to forget you — after they have your valuable
artifacts. For example* I gave the Palace of the Legion of Honor
museum In San Francisco a Japanese scroll. I loaned them a letter by
a friend* written In German* stating that the scroll was from the
twelfth century to thirteenth century* Japan. It noted that the
scroll was partly destroyed, but of great charm. Two years later
they couldn't find these Items.
Another time, the Palace of the Legion of Honor exhibited Greek
coins* and a few years latei — one hundred Byzantine coins. The
director of an unnamed museum In Los Angeles asked me to lend them my
gold coins. He said that If they were available to buy* he would buy
them. I asked the Legion of Honor to send them to Los Angeles — by
telephone. They were never on exhibit there. They were kept In a
room* where they were stolen. I had another unpleasant experience
with the Metropolitan Museum of Art In New York. It concerned prices
set for medals.
The Dumbarton Oaks Museum was my only good experience. At that
time there was no Interest In the dollar value of things exhibited.
Now they want to know about the future value.
1 93
Cans: I love the University of California — In the best sense of the word.
My seals given to the university are worth at least $500,000. I got
mature at age ninety. It was at age ninety-two that I adopted my
second daughter* Lucy.
October 20. 1985
A New Scrapbook
Gans: Here comes a story on the scrapbooks.
I have to go back to the time of my Immigration to this country
In December of 1937. It was a very difficult decision to make, but
we made It, and Asya particularly was a great help and support. Our
great apartment In Berlin was full of all kinds of things. We knew
how the situation was In this country, so everything bulky: big
furnitures, carpets, pictures, had to be left, and had to be
liquidated for a "song" In Germany. But still there were a lot of
other things left, and only a few things we took with us. Here, my
good relations with the German Relchsbank facilitated what we took
with us. I could bring my coin collection out In a legal way.
Nevertheless, there were two large Lit vans that had to be f II led
with small kinds of furniture and other things. It all had to be
done under the supervision of officers from the Nazi controller.
Each and every book was opened, whether or not there was money
hidden, or there were other things which were not al lowed to be taken
out by the Nazis. A very unpleasant eight days, but finally
everything was stowed away. What It was, very often I didn't even
know. Old suitcases and so on.
When I arrived In New York, I found, fortunately, a nice
landlord who allowed me to stow certain pieces of furniture, etc., In
the basement. He even built a partition for that purpose. In New
York we had three different apartments: first on Staten Island, from
1938 to 1940; from 1940 to 1948, on Madison Avenue In Manhatten,
where I already had an office combined with my residence; and then we
had a final apartment on 101 West 55th Street, equally for office and
residence, and that was fortunate because It made life easier and
cheaper.
In 1953 we moved to Berkeley where our house was built, and here
I could finally easily store what was still left. Naturally, In the
course of my New York times, the less bulky but still large things
were I IquI dated.
194
Cans: Here In Berkeley I finally tried to find out what I really had. I
found one black lacquer box* a small case In which I had collected
all of my correspondence I had saved from Germany: my correspondence
with Paula which was so close to my heart, letters from my mother*
and other things. I Just kept the box. I looked at It once In a
while* and on one dreary evening— when Asya was In a concert — I
opened It. All of the old memories came back.
It was wintertime. There was a fire In my fireplace, and the
thought came* "What will happen with this correspondence when I go?"
I was already nearly seventy, so I thought: •This correspondence was
Holy to me. It should not be seen by strangers." At that time I
decided. "Why should I bother Lydla* the only person who was really
near tome. I will burn It up." So. everything was burned.
Retrospective* I see It with a sad eye. I believe I did the
right thing, but I miss something that .Is gone forever. Then* years
later. I found another suitcase filled with scores of photos* photo
albums* and scraps of paper. And then I found In that suitcase on
letter of my fathers, written to me when I was six years old. And
that gave me the Idea to make a scrapbook — a scrapbook simply for my
family. I found among the photos one small photo of my father* and I
found another small photo of my mother. I was looking: "Is there
not a letter?", and I found a letter from my mother, too. I found a
letter from my then already dead brother, Slgmund* who died In the
same year as my father did. Then later on* when I looked at the
scraps* I found a few notes which Paula had sent* so I had her
handwriting again. It was scraps of paper* quotations she loved,
which she had written, again In her own handwriting. It was,
following up* Inserted In my scrapbook* so I have something from
Paula left. Again I looked* and I found among the photos from our
house notes that needed to be In writing In the scrapbook. The
scrapbook Itself will tell It.
Now the Idea of a scrapbook was establ (shed* and now came Asya,
now came Lydla* now came everything. The photo albums are preserved
Independent from the scrapbook* and now Lydla has It. Slowly the
scrapbook was filled, mostly with trivia* small memorabilia, old
picture cards from friends. Christmas cards which were nice, our own
Christmas cards which* so to say* accompany the story of Numismatic
Fine Arts* and a second scrapbook became necessary. And here came
correspondence from person Important even for this country* which
seemed to be worthwhile to keep, and that might be of Importance for
some later historian.
So the scrapbook Includes personal loves and perhaps also a few
Important things from Germany, memories from my friend Karl Krueger,
who played an Important part In Germany with the I.G.
Far ben Industrie, and also In politics — all are there. I really don't
know now what Is In there. There came things which were Important
for Natasha CBorovsky] for her writings. All poems which I loved I
195
Gans: preserved before some of them were printed. But anyway, they
constitute, for the first two years of my loneliness [after Asya's
passing], things of value.
Then my children started giving me pleasant things, and that was
especially on my birthday when I was ninety-five. All that happened
then and there was preserved In a third scrapbook, and I will keep
that third scrapbook with some memorabilia In connection with
birthdays and celebrations which might occur.
Monday, October 21, 1985
Gans: Now my life has taken a turn and a fourth scrapbook has to be done.
This new scrapbook starts with Polly [Horn]: It starts with a new
family. This new family, which Is Lucy [Kaplan], who was moved
closer. In the studio. I cannot Include Lydla — Lydla again has to
fol low her spirit and her walk of life. She will go to China next
year and I will see her even less than I have so far. But I realize
the necessity. She Is doing a lot for this country— for everybody—
and that Is her own life, which does not cause an Impediment to our
mutual love or feelings of togetherness. On the other hand, I am
happy to say that Lucy has two daughters who have real ly become
grandchildren, and the Kaplan family and the Gans family are one. I
hope that It Is the same way with Polly.
Saturday, October 26, 1985
Gans: They al I shared with me their art, and they al I gave me a share of
their life. At my last birthday party Lucy found the words: "We are
not only all the friends of Edward — we have all become friends with
each other." I do not forget to write about Wolfgang [Helmpel], with
whom we really have an equal share of my life with seals and my love
for the University [of California].
Now let me say a few words separately about the scrapbooks
proper. I think the decision should be with Lydla and Lucy. As long
as both are Interested In preserving them, they should keep them.
But there will come the time when they will be worthless for Lydla's
or Lucy's children or for anybody else — except a historian, who might
find this or that of Interest to him when he wants to be Informed
about life In Germany or In this country.
The Bancroft Library has expressed Interest In the scrapbook.
So let them decide and let Lydfa and Lucy decide If they want It. I
have no objection. I could well Imagine that such remarks as I made
and collected from Germany and from this country are of Interest.
196
Gans: I also have a few words to say about my books. I had a very large,
comprehensive library In Germany. What was to be done? All of the
luxury bindings, all the valuable books, which were destined to be
for a life of leisure after retirement, had to remain In Germany and
were disposed of In Berlin. Everything else I took to New York.
Very early I had to make room for acquiring numismatic books and new
books I needed, so almost all classical literature had to be disposed
of. As to the classics that had to remain, only Goethe, Heine,
Shakespeare, and Ibsen were salvaged.
Then In Berkeley the real collection began here for numismatic
material, and I have a very Important library which was eventually
acquired by a professor at UCLA. Additional acquirements also later
constituted gifts to UCLA. Then, when my Interest switched to seals,
I had to acquire a seal library, which Includes, I believe, Important
Items and It constitutes a part of my seal collection which also goes
as a gift to U.C. Berkeley.
I had tried to bring smal ler and also larger objects of my other
collection of objects of art to this country. All of these had to be
sold during the last almost fifty years In this country. What Is
left at this moment Is a cabinet In which my valuable Items were
lodged. It Is still for sale. I have a small cabinet to keep my
glass objects In, which takes some space In my room, and a small
round table and one chali — thafs all. All of my violins and other
Instruments were sold or given away. A very large Chinese pot was a
gift, together with many other things, to Mills College, because our
friend there was Professor Alfred Neumler. Other Items were a gift
to the Museum In Omaha, because my friend Dr. Judd was a leading
person In that city. And many other things were liquidated, just to
make a I Iving.
This year, 1985, Is a turning point in my life. A retrospective
summary of the past decade seems to be in order. During the last few
years of Asya's life she was not well and blind. During the last
year she was tormented by cancer. She passed away In August 1979,
and I was alone — alone at ninety-two. My daughter Lydla lives In
Pomona. She Is a professor of mathematics at the California State
Polytechnic University. She Is deeply Interested in her profession.
She cares for the underdog. She fights for the liberation of women,
and Is a fanatic traveler — all over the world. Besides, she has
three children In their late twenties. All three children are lovely
persons. The eldest, Laurie, Is a professional musician. She plays
the violin and the viola, and Is a member of the Santa Rosa Symphony
orchestra. Gregory Is a medical doctor on the East Coast. He is
married and has three children. The youngest, Nina, Is married and
has one child. She works for the University of San Francisco and
dances ballet. We all feel close to one another, but they have to
lead their own lives. So I had to look for friends.
197
Gans: An old acquaintance developed Into a close friendship — Natasha
Borovsky. She had just finished her books. Lost Heritage and
Memoirs of a Princess, and I was called to proofread and discuss
these works. It was a pleasant task, requiring my attention for
several years, and a warm friendship developed. The latter book was
recently published under the title A Daughter of the Nobility, and
her other books will follow In the years to come. Publishers and
author expect world-wide recognition. This hope Is naturally shared
by me. and I do not need to add further words about her personality,
or that I expect It to be known world-wide.
Natasha Introduced me to her friend Lucy Kaplan. Natasha's
dedication of a number of poems to Lucy had aroused my curiosity.
When I first met Lucy I was struck by her art. by her personality, by
her straightforwardness — not making any concessions. She could well
have been a daughter of my first wife, Paula. Paula and I had the
hope for an offspring, but did not fulfull our hopes. I found It
natural to adopt Lucy as my daughter. Lucy has brought up two
daughters, who promise to be her likeness, and our love for one
another Is mutual.
A short while later the family of my late brother. Robert. In
Paris, brought me together with Dr. Tom Jamleson and his wife Roslyn.
They live close-by. Roslyn Is writing her Ph.D. thesis on Rodin, and
at times we could discuss problems, and I could provide some
translations. Here again, friendship has developed.
A casual meeting with Carol Eisenberg developed Into another
kind of friendship. Carol Is a real musician In virtually every
field. She improvises music when accompanying ballet students, she
teaches piano, she cultivates classical music, and still Is familiar
with anything created in modern times. And what Is the most
Important thing for me, Is that she revived my old Interest In music.
During my life with Asya, music was for fifty years the main theme,
but any activity In music had been abandoned for the last twenty
years. Now. I have piano lessons with Carol, and with arthritic
fingers, and without vision. I have even made occasional attempts at
composing.
In this connection I must also mention Julie Provost, who
happens to be the secretary at the Center for Reduced Vision at U.C.
Berkeley. Julie helped me at a critical time, when I was losing my
vision. In spite of being twice Inflicted with cancer, fortunately
now cured, she Is a devout Catholic, only Interested In helping
people and organizations, and In this respect I learned a lot. Thank
you, Jul ie.
When I lost my vision— I believe It was In the Fall of 1984— all
of my aforementioned friends wanted me to relieve my being alone.
After fifty years of happy married life, I had found living alone to
be a devastating experience, In spite of the loving attentions of the
198
Gans: aforementioned people. Now I could not read or write, and I was more
alone than ever. They made arrangements among themselves to render
me company, and the love thusly expressed was enheartenlng. But they
all had their work, their families, their duties, and It became
necessary to find a companion. Here I can only say that the Good
Lord went Into action. On January 20, 1985, Polly appeared, and a
companionship was arranged strictly on a professional basis. Polly's
life Is devoted strictly to holistic health, and I am the lucky one
on whom her gifts are extended. Polly's time Is divided between her
studies at Kennedy University at Orlnda, and at other Institutions,
and on me.
The word "alone" that had persecuted me for the last six years
has now disappeared. Within a few hours there Is always Polly who
can actively help. I have become a taker, and a deep friendship has
developed over the course of the last nine months, and Polly has
become a member of the family. My two daughters and their children
love Polly, and Polly reciprocates their love. I can repeat, "alone"
Is gone. The most wonderful thing Is that Polly does not take care
only of my physical necessities, but she shares all of my Interest In
literature, music, art, etc. Let her In the following write a few
words about herself.
I have spoken here about my new life after Asya has gone, but I
do not wish to leave out those who were old friends already during my
married life, and who continue to be a source of pleasure In my life.
There was Norma and Arthur Schroeder, whom we met within one month of
our arrival, In 1938, in Staten Island, New York. Soon after their
son was born (he Is the well-known doctor, Steve Schroeder), they
moved to Chicago and then to Berkeley, where chance brought us
together again, and where the friendship was reestablished and Is
lasting even until today. Other friends are Fred and Helen Stress.
Helen played the cello part In our regular chamber music evenings,
since they started In 1953, until Asya's vision forced her to stop.
With Fred I could share many mutual Interests, and I daresay close
friendship here Is everlasting.
My profession and my col lectlng activities brought me together
with a great number of scientists at the university here In Berkeley.
I do not dare to give names because I am afraid I might omit one or
the other, and I don't want to hurt anybody. Some have passed away.
Some are retired. And among those who are stll I active there Is one
whom I have to mention. It Is Professor Wolfgang Helmpel, whom I
consider to represent his Department of Near Eastern Studies. A
close friendship has developed during the last ten or fifteen years.
I always admired the wide scope of his Interests. Today we could
converse on Sumer, and then on dogs, and on astronomical events, on
Indian heiroglyphics, on Goethe, and on all of the seals in my
collection. Wolfgang's Interest prompted me to make my gift of my
seal collection to the university.
1 99
Gans: I have previously mentioned my seal collection. That we named the
collection "comparative" was an Idea which was born and uttered at
the same moment* mutual ly. It has grown and grown to nearly a
thousand seals* and constitutes a gift to the university. It
Includes seals and books. Wolfgang takes care of the collection.
Hopeful ly It will continue to grow and become ever more useful for
teaching purposes. I had the pleasure recently to be present when
Wolfgang conducted a three-hour seminar on these seals for a group of
students. It was proof for me that my Idea of assisting a learned
Institution fs perhaps even more Important than mere exhibition.
Let me end my story of my I Ife for the past six years since Asya
has left with these words: All of the foregoing — Lydla, Natasha,
Lucy, and then Roslyn, Carol, and Julie, and finally Polly — all of
them shared with me their art, their wisdom, and part of their
experience, and all of them shared part of their lives with me. And
here Is my thank you.
Two Stories
Fowler McCormack
Gans: In the nineteen fifties a friend of mine In Chicago Introduced me to
Mr. McCormack. Mr. McCormack Invited me for supper at his club In
Chicago. He had lost his pocket piece — an extremely rare Greek
tetradrachm. His cherished pocket piece had been lost and he wanted
to replace It. It turned out to be an Impossible task. This
particular coin had not turned up during the recent fifty years. I
recommended other pocket pieces, and he found one. It was a
beautiful Syracusan Decadrachm which only Dr. Jacob HIrsch could
supply. On this particular evening our conversation went In all
directions, and Mr. McCormack mentioned that he was leaving the next
day for New York, by plane. This prompted me to ask him what plane
he was using, and this prompted me to make a reservation for the same
plane. We "met" and I asked him whether he would see some other
coins. And Indeed his answer was affirmative. I had a good
selection with me, Intended for an exhibit at a forthcoming
convention, and the spark Ignited. He selected ten or fifteen coins
for the beginning. This was certainly the highest value deal I had
ever made. The urge to collect coins faded, but we remained friends
and he exchanged Christmas cards with me from his ranch In Arizona.
200
Dr. J. H. Judd
Gans: This Is about a friendship that extended over several decades* always
quite formal.
I met Dr. J. H. Judd probably a year after the establ ishment of
my Numismatic Fine Arts firm. At that time his Interest was centered
on American coins. At his home In Omaha, Nebraska* he had reserved a
room In the basement of his house for his coin collections. A steel
door, which he had acquired from an insolvent bank somewhere, guarded
this room. I cannot say with certainty whether he had owned at that
time a few Greek or Roman coins, but one thing Is for sure, that he
had never before seen such an assemblage of Interesting Greek coins
as my stock formed. He started to buy a few Greek coins on every one
of his visits to New York, and our friendship started to grow. After
a few years had passed, he invited Asya and me for a visit at his
home in Omaha, whch turned out to be a warm affair. He had Invited,
among others, the president and the director of the Omaha Museum, and
In turn I visited the museum during repeated visits In coming years.
I remember I gave the museum two Renaissance terra cotta busts in
appreciation of our friendship with Dr. Judd. During another visit
with Dr. Judd at Omaha he brought me to the Omaha Library, pointing
to a magnificent tetradrachm of Queen Cleopatra, which probably Is a
unique specimen, or at least of extreme rarity.
His coin room was changed and one side of the room was dedicated
to classical coins and the other side for American coins. Dr. Judd's
eyes were of extreme acuity. He could detect the slightest
Irregularity, which became Important when he started to specialize In
Greek coins which bore the signature of the artist who made the dies.
In 1953, after we moved to Berkeley, It was a pleasant coincidence
that his only daughter also had moved to San Francisco and was
married In the Bay Area — which prompted Dr. Judd and his wife to
visit the area at least once a year. Our friendship continued in the
most pleasant way, and at his every visit he came to see me, too. By
1965 he had given up all American coins, and his Interest was
entirely devoted to classical coins.
This particular year, 1965, will always remain In my memory
because It was the last time I saw Dr. Judd. At this visit he had
selected ten coins 'ton approval." This was the usual procedure.
About a week later I got a call from Dr. Judd. A robbery had been
committed at his house. The whole collection was stolen, Including
the ten coins. My coins were covered by Insurance, so I was not
worried about the loss. Of Incalculable Importance was the loss for
Dr. Judd. His antiquated Insurance policy had never been brought up-
to-date. A year later I had a letter from his wife saying that he
had suffered an incurable brain Illness. I have never seen any
member of the family again.
201
Gans: It must have been In the early nineteen seventies that the Insurance
company contacted me and advised me that perhaps a part of the Judd
collection had been recovered* and they asked whether I would be able
to Identify the coins. On my affirmative answer I was Invited to
Chicago where the FBI had the coins. The Insurance company had
reserved rooms for me at the same club where Mr. McCormack had taken
me to lunch. There was a meeting with two officials from the FBI»
from the police* and from the Insurance company* together with my
wife and me — also with the dealer who had kept these coins. There
were perhaps some forty or fifty coins which the FBI had retained.
Each one was shown to me» and each one I could Identify as not being
the Judd property. Finally there came a single Athenian drachm from
the Archaic period* which I could Identify with absolute certainty as
being Judd's property. That was the clue. Where one coin Is* there
must be others. A year or two later more coins were found* this time
In San Francisco. I was called again and this time they were Judd's
property. Again some time later a third group was discovered In
Canada* but this time I was close to ninety years old and I did not
go. I have heard that most of the silver coins were now
rediscovered* but the most valuable gold coins were still missing.
The statute of limitations must have played a role* and I do not know
how the matter was settled.
202
XVIII POSTSCRIP7UM-- WRITTEN IN MY HUNDREDTH YEAR
June 29, 1987
Gans: The above story was finished several years ago. Unfortunate
circumstances delayed the print. Now I have to add:
I lost my vision some three years ago, and I cannot read and
write. Fortunately, Lucy and her two I Ively and lovely daughters
lived nearby. Natasha and Carol, a few blocks away. In other hours
I had talking books with sometimes wonderful writers.
Then two years ago, again a miracle happened. I met Polly Horn,
who Is a student of holistic medicine, which she applied upon me, and
now Polly has become an Ideal companion. She made me aware that I
have a soul, as all my beloved ones have; that I have a guiding
spirit, a spirit which I used to call "miracles." And best of all,
Polly removed a lock which was before my mouth for ninety-eight
years. I learned to communicate. Now I can communicate with
everybody, high and low, and even with my beloved father, who passed
away ninety-three years ago. Thank you, Pollyl God bless youl
Another Postscript
Gans: Albert Einstein left these words and Pol ly gave them to me, A reader
of this story may stop to listen:
The most beautiful and most profound emotion
we can experience Is the sensation of the mystical.
It Is the sower of al I true science. He to whom
this emotion Is a stranger, who can no longer
stand rapt In awe, Is as good as dead. That deeply
emotional conviction of the presence of a superior
reasoning power, which Is revealed In the Incomprehensible
universe, forms my Idea of God.
—Albert Einstein
Left: Edward Cans at age 95 in October 1984,
Below left: Edward Cans in his sixties,
ca. 1947.
Below right: Edward Cans at age 25 in 1912
1
203
TAPE GUIDE — Edward Gans
Interview 1: September 22 , 1983
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Interview 15: May 6, 1984
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Interview 17: December 20, 1984
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Interview 18: January 8, 1985
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Interview 19: August 28, 1985
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APPENDIX
Herman and Salman Schocken, by Norman Davis 207
The Edward Gans Collection of Ancient Jewelry, Catalog, Auction
No. I, Summa Galleries, Inc. (Beverly Hills, California).
September 18, 1981 212
Coins, Mail Bid Sale, April 19, I960, Bauer Collection 237
Glossery 244
207
HERMAN AND SALMAN SCHQCKEN. by Norman Dav 1 S
My friend Edward Gans of Berkeley has asked for any recollections I
may have of our mutual friend, Salman Schocken, for use In the
recording of his oral history.
I begin with memories of Salman Schocken1 s brother* Herman*
whom I first met In 1939, through the Federated Jewish Fund of
Seattle. At the time, Herman was devoting himself to the task of
meeting and placing within the community what became a consistent
trickle of German Jewish refugees, coming to Seattle by way of
Vladlvostock. He would be down at the dock to meet every ship from
that area, and take over the three or four people that came with most
ships. He would help them through customs and Immigration, then find
them a temporary home, and later get local employers to find work for
them. It was a task that required mountains of determination and
goodwill. He had both.
Meanwhile, now and again, Herman would tell me of his life and
family. There were three Schocken brothers, Salman, Herman, and a
third whose name escapes me. Salman and this other brother were
enormously helpful In building up a chain of large department stores
In the major cities of post-First World War Germany.
But Herman wanted no part of the life that was entailed In this
kind of business. He was the youngest of the three, and he left
Germany for the American West. He worked for a while operating a
small fruit canning plant In Yaklma, Washington, and It was there
that he met his wife and married her. She was a Quaker. She did not
convert, nor did he. In due time he retired from business and came
to live In Seattle In an apartment building on Boren Avenue. I would
visit him from time to time, and we would reminisce. He was a quiet,
gentle, and determined man, deeply Interested In Jewish affairs.
He once told me a tale of his work for the Jewish children of
Germany. During the almost famine which raged In Germany after the
First World War, a plan was made to send children to live for three
months at a time with the wel l-to-do farmers of the Italian Tyrol,
where lots of food had been stored away. But how to get the Ital lans
to agree?
Herman was asked to go to see the Pope and ask him to plead
with Mussolini to help with these pitifully underfed children, Jewish
and Gentile alike. He told of his conversation with the Pope, and I
asked, "What did he look like?" Herman said he was short, gray-
?08
haired* small* with rather distant blue eyes, and an air of great
cleanliness. And looking at Herman, he was also describing himself,
except that he had a smile. The Pope did help and many young lives
were saved.
Another recol lection of Herman Schocken was of the time of my
brother Ellls's death, at age fifty-three, from a single massive
heart attack. I had been with him at the time and, exhausted as I
was, could not bring myself to go tell our mother of It. Instead — it
was at about nine o'clock In the morning — I went to Herman Schocken,
and sat with him for an hour, and so composed myself enough to tel I
her.
And here Is a short anecdote of the three brothers. They lived
In the Saxony town of Zwlckaw. It was a garrison town with stone
walls around It, but by the last year of World War I, the garrison
was largely of old soldiers, Incapable of field combat, and the
commanding officer, also a retired general. The third Schocken
brother also was In uniform, a first lieutenant with duties as
adjutant to the general. His principal task was to fill In the daily
report on the strength of the garrison: how many sick, absent, etc.
There were the usual routine salutes between the general and his
adjutant, but hardly a word more.
At last, one day the General broke the stiff relationship that
had lasted for more than a year, and spoke directly by looking up to
his adjutant and saying, "Lieutenant, I have enquired about you, and
know that you are the head of your Jewish community here, and wel I-
versed In the principles of your religion. I have long wondered — I
am an old man — at the Jewish attitude to life after death. What is
your belief?11 After a moment's thought, Schocken asked If he might
have time to reflect, and asked If he could try to answer the
fol lowing day.
So Herman Schocken described how, that evening the three
brothers went for their customary walk together. The path around the
city walls was only wide enough for two abreast, and he was In the
rear as the three of them debated the answer and agreed on It.
The following day, after handing In the usual daily report, the
general again looked up to his adjutant and asked, "What have you for
me," to which Schocken replied, "We have discussed this at length,
and have concluded that, In our belief, on death the soul returns to
Its maker." The general sat for a long time pondering, and then
looked up. "Yes," he said. "That was my own conclusion."
A year later the general died. He was starvation poor because
his retirement pension was worthless In the face of the enormous
Inflation of those post-war years In Germany. But he had one
treasure, a large silver bowl presented to an ancestor of his who was
In command of the Prussian force at the Battle of Waterloo, and who
209
turned a threatened defeat Into a victory for the British* with whom
Prussia was then allied. In his will the general bequeathed this
bowl to the Schockens, but the advent of Hitler necessitated leaving
it behind when Salman Schocken escaped from Germany to America.
I first met Salman Schocken In my own home. It was sometime
after the end of the Second World War* and I was asked to lend our
home for an afternoon meeting with the members of the board of the
Federated Jewish Fund board* and to meet an eminent Zionist with a
message from Israel to the Seattle community. He was the man who had
bought a vital piece of the foreshore at Haifa Bay and given It to
the Jewish National Fund — one of those German Jews* who had foreseen
the future of Germany and Its Jews under Hitler and had come to
America with enough assets to leave him Independent* and with
sufficient coverage to continue to work for Jewish causes.
He had been asked to tel I the tale of German Jewry to the
American Jewish world. He had undertaken the task* but first had to
learn English. He shut himself up for several months with an English
teacher* and In his sixties had acquired a good measure of the
language — enough to make a twenty minute address to our people at the
meeting. He had real ly come out of his way to Seattle to visit his
brother, Herman Schocken, whom I knew and I Iked.
The story that Salman Schocken had to tell was no different In
substance from what one had heard many tl.mes before* but he spoke
with a simplicity and directness that was quite moving. In a little
conversation we had afterwards he told me he was Interested In Greek
coins* as I was, and we Immediately had a special common Interest.
This was especial ly so after I had taken him to the Seattle Art
Museum and shown him my modest collection of Greek and Roman
antiquities.
At that time I was still In business, which took me to New York
several times a year, and* finding a kindred soul, he would lunch
with me and then show me some of his Impressionist paintings that he
kept In an apartment not far from Grand Central Station. He was In
the process of disposing of some of them, and used the advisory
services of a Mr. Rorlmer of the Metropolitan Museum. I recall him
showing me a charming Renoir painting of two women hanging out the
wash, one stooping to a basket and the other reaching up to the line.
I asked If It was for sale and he said, "Yes, at twenty thousand
dollars." This was In the days when one did not smile at the thought
of a good Renoir at that price. I asked for a day to think It over,
and for another look, but when I phoned him, he said that Rorlmer had
urged that he keep that particular painting, so —
One time, he took me out to lunch at his home, about twenty
miles north of New York City, a pleasant, modest house with one
charming feature. This was the dining room, which was a little long
and narrow, that had on one side a long window looking out on a
210
stretch of lawn bordered with sliver birch trees, a charming scene.
And along the opposite wall was a painting of that view from the
window* "as consolation*11 he said, "for the dark hours."
In the same house* he had one room devoted to his collection of
the letters and poems of Helnrlch Heine. I have no knowledge of
German, but hearing the snatches he read from the poems, all original
manuscripts destined for his one-man museum In Jerusalem, was a most
moving experience.
On one of his visits to Seattle he asked me to come up to his
room at the Olympic Hotel because he had something to show me. It
was a small case of twenty-four gold Greek coins, all beauties. He
said that looking over and handling them before turning to sleep was
the best sedative for him. He was, and looked to be, a demanding
man, demanding of himself, as well as of others, and under his
surface calm there was much tension.
On one of my New York trips he left a message at my hotel that a
car would pick me up to take me to an artist's studio to meet him.
When we arrived at what looked like a galvanized barn, the studio of
the noted sculptor Jacques Llpschltz, Schocken took me by the arm, a
little Impatiently, to show me the head of himself that Llpschltz
was just finishing. "What do you think of It," he demanded. And
then, as I stood looking at It, he burst out, "I don't I Ike It; I
don't look like that man." I stood awhile and looked, and then I
took off for a round of looking over what finished sculptures there
were, stacked about the building.
I looked again and again. The skull, the shape and strength of
the head and forehead were strong and right. But the face was a
disaster. The eyes were small and rather protruding, the nose
squashed and sideways, the mouth bitter and hard. And again Schocken
said, "I don't like that man. What do you say?" I looked at
Llpschltz, who turned away. He was not going to discuss his work
with me. And finally, I said, "What God gave you, the bones, are
strong and handsome. What you have done with the flesh — you or
time — Is your responsibility." Yet later, he did reconcile himself
to the sculpture, and used It as an Illustration In one of the books
of the Schocken Press.
The next time I saw that Salman Schocken was In Jerusalem. I
was there as a lay consultant In a dispute over the to-be-built
Israel Museum. Eric Mendelsohn had designed a mansion In which
Schocken's treasures — manuscripts, coins and the like — were to be
displayed. When he asked me what I thought of It, I could only say
that It looked rather heavy, and that perhaps a couple of bright
Persian carpets In the main room would help. Later I heard that
Schocken, that same day, got after Mendelsohn, who, at the time was
also occupied with drawing up plans for the Hadassah Hospital In
Jerusalem. The result was that Mendelsohn set off for Damascus and
21 I
brought back a quite magnificent mainly blue rug that made the room
sparkle. Schocken was quietly proud of it, as if he himself had
woven it.
Norman Davis
December 1983
Seattle* Washington
212
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213
TO
AUCTION I
ANCIENT ART
SEPTEMBER 18, 1981
ESTIMATES
*The Edward Cans
Collection of Ancient
Jewelry, auction items
nos. Ill to 140
Lot
Estimate
Lot
Estimate
Lot
Estimate
Lot
Estimate
1
2,000
36
6,500
71
40,000
06
2,500
2
2,000
37
6,000
72
12,000
07
2,000
3
7,500
38
8,000
73
20,000
08
1,200
4
65,000
39
8,000
74
15,000
09
2,500
5
16,000
40
1,500
75
35,000
10
5,000
6
10,000
41
2,000
76
25,000
11
20,000
7
15,000
42
15,000
77
4,000
12
FOR
8
15,000
43
20,000
78
1,500
13
1 2,000
9
20,000
44
5,000
79
4,500
14
5,000
10
40,000
45
2,000
80
10,000
15
FOR
11
4,000
46
8,000
81
3,000
16
25,000
12
12,000
47
2,500
82
2,000
17
8,000
13
10,000
48
6,500
83
5,000
18
5,000
14
7,500
49
FOR
84
800
19
15,000
15
8,000
50
7,500
85
600
20
4,000
16
30.000
51
15,000
86
600
21
1,500
17
3,500
52a& b
10,000
87
800
22
FOR
18
2,000
53 a&b
15,000
88
2,500
23
FOR
19
2,500
54
3,000
89
500
24
7,500
20
1,500
55
6,000
90
1,500
25
5,000
21
3,500
56
15,000
91
1,500
126
8,000
22
3,000
57
25,000
92
1,500
127
5,000
23
FOR
58
FOR
93
2,000
128
8,000
24
8,000
59
FOR
94
2,000
29
8,000
25
12,000
60
25,000
95
5,000
130
7,500
26
FOR
61
25,000
96
7,500
31
7,500
27
8,000
62
15,000
97
2,000
32
3,500
28
10,000
63
8,000
98
10,000
33
25,000
29
25,000
64
10,000
99
20,000
34
FOR
30
10,000
65
7,500
100
5,000
35
3,500
31
2,000
66
15,000
101
2,000
36
10,000
32
2,000
67
5,000
102
1,500
37
20,000
33
12,000
28
15,000
103
1,000
38
6,000
34
12,000
69
20,000
104
200
39
4,500
35 a& b
8,000
70
20,000
105
400
40
1,000
*POR- price on request
P.O. Box 6428/342 North Rodeo Drive/Beverly Hills, California 90212/Telephone: 213/278-4434
214
TH
ALL
AUCTION I
ANCIENT ART
SEPTEMBER 18,1981
PRICES REALIZED
Lot
Realized
Lot
Realized
Lot
Realized
Lot
1
2,400
37
6,250
72
9,500
107
2
1.700
38
3,000
73
16,000
108
3
4.200
39
4,500
74
10,500
109
4
90.000
40
800
75
55,000
110
5
18.000
41
1,500
76
28,000
111
6
12.000
42
16,000
77
2,800
112
7
14,000
43
15,000
78
800
113
8
18.000
44
3.400
79
2,000
114
9
12,500
45
1,650
80
6,000
115
10
55.000
46
7,000
81
1,800
116
II
4,200
47
1,300
82
1,200
117
12
10,000
48
3,500
83
3,200
118
13
10,000
49
75,000
84
480
119
14
4.250
50
8,500
85
350
120
IS
9,500
51
20,000
86
600
121
16
36,000
52a/b
1 1 ,000
87
550
122
17
3.000
53a/b
8,000
88
1,500
123
18
1,050
54
2,500
89
300
124
19
1,550
55
2,500
90
900
125
20
850
56
15,000
91
1,400
126
21
1,800
57
18,000
92
900
127
22
1,500
58
18,000
93
1,250
128
24
10,000
59
30,000
94
1.450
129
25
5,000
60
39,000
95
3,000
130
26
60,000
61
25.500
96
8,000
131
27
8,500
62
15,500
97
1.250
132
28
10.000
63
8,000
98
8,000
133
29
30.000
64
4.000
99
22,000
134
30
9,500
65
6,500
100
3,750
135
31
1.100
66
23,000
101
1,450
136
32
400
67
2.000
102
1,500
137
33
12.000
68
23,000
103
725
138
34
17,500
69
12,000
104
150
139
35a/b
7.500
70
18,000
105
775
140
36
3,500
71
3 1 ,000
106
1,900
Realized
1,450
925
1,000
4.500
3.750
15,000
3,150
1,100
7.000
5.500
5,250
2.600
4.600
ILJU
216
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[Sample pages]
MAIL BID SALE
No. 16
Closing Date
APRIL 19th. 1960
GREEK COINS
from the
COLLECTION OF MR. GEORGE J. BAUER
ROCHESTER, N. Y., et ol.
BYZANTINE COINS
DUPLICATES FROM A "WELL-KNOWN COLLECTION."
Roman Medallion, Renaissance Medals, etc.
Balance of the Collection of the late
DR. KURT M. SEMON
NEW YORK i FRANKFURT A.M. i
NUMISMATIC FINE ARTS
EDWARD CANS
10 Rock Lane, Berkeley 8, California
238
FOREWORD
Mr. George J. Bauer's collection of Greek Coins is probably the best
known in this country. He must have started it some fifty years ago when
really fine material was still available. His exquisite taste and his sense
for highest quality enabled him to assemble a collection which ranks
amongst the finest ever offered for sale. Mr. Bauer shared his enthusiasm
with the American coin-collecting fraternity by exhibiting his coins at
practically every important Convention, and many honors were heaped
upon him on such occasions. Influenced by the late Mr. Edward T. Newell
the collection is particularly strong in coins from Magna Graecia. and
especially Syracuse. Greece proper. Alexander the Great and the Diadochi.
For many years it was my desire to offer this outstanding material at an
auction, and now this becomes true!
The anonymity of the consignor of the Byzantine Coins has to be
respected. The quality and rarity, especially in the coinage of the
Isaurian and Macedonian Dynasties, speaks for its importance.
For quite a number of years I was liquidating the collection of my old
friend. Dr. Kurt M. Semon. of New York, formerly of Frankfurt a.M. After
his untimely death it was arranged with the executor to offer the balance
of the collection in an auction for final liquidation. Even these few
remaining pieces render testimony for his discriminating taste and his
sense of beauty. His greatest love was the Hadrian Medallion which
remained on his desk until he closed his eyes forever.
239
Terms of Sale
The purchase price plus an additional charge of W'c is due upon receipt of our
shipment.
Postage and insurance will be added to invoice; for shipments within California
also the State Sales Tax of -1%.
Each coin is guaranteed to be genuine, and as described in this catalogue, but
claims of any nature or for any reason must be made within 15 days from the
receipt of the coins. No coins are returnable except by agreement with this
cataloguer.
,Vo Extra Commission will be charged for handling your bids, but unlimited
bids can not be accepted.
The lots will be awarded to the highest bidder. If his bid exceeds the next high
est bid by more than 10 %, the lot will be awarded at a price based on the next-
highest bid plus lO'/c. This enables you to make liberal bids, since I guarantee to
execute them beloui your figures to the extent stated in the preceding sentence.
Estimates are for guidance only, and selling prices may be higher or lower.
Bidders unknown to this cataloguer are requested to send a deposit equal to 25^
of their bids. Such deposits will promptly be refunded, if bids are not successful.
In case of identical bids, preference is given to the first received.
If a bidder wants to limit his purchases to a certain amount, he may indicate
first and second choice. Such bids will be executed with care and as the situation
warrants.
A list of prices realized will be sent free of charge to all successful bidders.
Other parties may obtain a price list at $1.00 per copy to be sent with the order.
Additional information will be furnished upon request.
By tending in a bidsheet, the bidder agrees to the Terms of Sale as stated above.
All coins are of silver, unless otherwise indicated.
All coins, except a few Byzantine I duplicates or minor I . are illustrated.
240
GREEK COINS
1 W ESTER \ CELTS. Aulerci Eburoiices. Gold. Half Stater. Richly
ornamented head I. Rv. Galloping horse r.: above, driver:
below, running animal snatching at horse s hoof. DLT.7U18.
3.44 gr. E.F. 1 90.00 1
2 — Boii. Gold. Stater: so-cailed rainbow-cup. Triquetrum in half-
open wreath. Rv. 3 double-circles and 4 encircled pellets
pyramidally arranged inside zigzag border. DLT.9441. F.399.
Ex .\aville I .73. 6.G4 gr. E.F. 1 125.00 )
3 — Carnutes. Gold. Stater. Male head r. Rv. Biga r. Not in DLT.
etc. Ex .\avtlle I .49. 7.39 gr.i ! I. V.F. Very rare ( 100.00 I
4 — Carnules I ? I. Gold. '4 stater. Male head r. Rv. Biga r. : below.
lyre upside down. Cp. for rev. DLT. 5950. E.v \aville I .48.
1.89 gr. E.F. (TO.OOi
5 — Morini. Gold. Stater. Obverse blank. Rv. Disjointed horse r. :
below, pellet. F.472. 6.32 gr. E.F. 1 65.00 1
6 — \'errii. Gold. Stater. Portions of a laureate head. Rv. Horse r. :
above, wheel. F.158. £.v \anlle XI 1. 26. 6.00 gr. E.F. ( 100.00 1
7 — Parisii. Gold. Stater. Male head with large curls r. Rv. Horse I.:
above, veil-like pattern. DLT.7782. F.542. £.v \aviile I .62.
7.31 gr. V.F. plus. Very rare 1 140.00 1
8 - Proto-Heketii (?). Gold. Half stater. Head of Apollo r.
Rv. Biga r. : in ex.. inscription. Cp. Num. Chron. 1945.
pl.I.6.sq. E.v \arille I 1.14. J.0,°, gr.i ! i E.F. I'ery rare (80.00 1
9 — Remii. Gold. Globule-shaped stater. Oln. Star. Rv. Blank.
F.46S. 6.33 gr. V.F. (70.001
10 EASTER\ CELTS. Tetradrachm: Philip type. Laur. head of
Zeus r. Rv. Horseman I.: behind, wreath: below, branch.
Cp.DLT.9770. E.v \arille /'/./>. 13.11 gr. Superb (40.001
241
11 — Audoleon. Laur. head of Zeus r. Rv. Helmeted horseman r.
Below horse, counterstamp. Pink 402. Cp. Jameson 1024.
Ex \aville f> .87. 13.23 gr. Very rare. Superb (100.00)
12 — Burgenlaender group. Diad. head of Apollo r. Rv. Horseman 1.;
below, fetters. DLT.9901. F.302. Dess.104. Pink 46(A 12,67 gr.
Superb (45.00)
13 \lassalia. (Marseille). Before 350 B.C. Drachm. Female head r.
Rv. Mil V Lion with protruding tongue, walking r. Cp.
Lucerne 1957, No. 6. 3,74 gr. E.F. (60.00)
14 Populonia. Etruria. 4th cent. B.C. Didrachm. Head of Gorgon, hair
bound with diadem; below, value-mark: X:X. Rv. Blank.
Sambon 50.42. 3.5 gr. Nearly E.F. (35.00)
15 Rome. 269-242 B.C. Didrachm. Diademed bust of young Hercules
with club over shoulder. Rv. She-wolf and twins: in exergue,
ROMANO. R.R.C. 6. Cp. Lucerne l'J54, 20. 7.18 gr. E.F. (75.00)
16 — 222-205 B.C. Didrachm (Quadrigatusi. Head of Janus.
Rv. Juppiter with Victory in quadriga: below, tablet with
incuse letters: ROMA. R.R.C. 64a. 6.72 gr. E.F.
17 — — Aes Grave: "prow" series. The complete set of the Libral
Standard, consisting of:
At Janus-head and value-mark
Ai do., no value-mark
Semii Head of Saturn
Trieni Head of Minerva
Quadrant Head of Hercules
Sextant Head of Mercury
L'ncia Head of Bellona
Patina varying, from medium green to almost black. Set of
seven pieces
RRC. i
262.3
ft-
V.F.
RRC.
1
j;».r
cr.
V.F.
RRC.
3
128.4
ft-
V.F.
RRC.
r*
Sv3
ft.
nearly
V.F.
RRC.
$
640
»«••
F.
RRC.
6
37->
cr.
V.F.
RRC.
7
20.S5
«'•
nearly
V.F.
(25.00)
( 300.00)
242
243
List of Prices Realized
MAIL BID SALE No. 16
AprU 19th, 1960
NUMISMATIC FINE ARTS
EDWARD CANS
10 Rock Lane
Berkeley 8, Calif.
Lot No. Bid ! Lot No Bid : Lot No. Bid Lot No. Bid Lot No. Bid
Lot No. Bid
1 | 70-00
29 .| 35vO 65 | 6000
98 ....|175.00
129 |I37.50
160 | 70.00
2 155.00
31 40.00
70 325.00
99 90.00
130 121.00
161 11000
3 9500
32 25.rO
71 65.00
100 2000
131 65.00
163 ... 75.00
4 65.00
33 (0.00
72 8000
101 ... 20.00
132 385.00
164 ... 6500
5 55.0)
34 46.00
73 100.00 103 192.50
134 8000
165 .... 150.00
6 80.rO
35 35.00
74 4500
104 130.00
135 125.00
166 120.00
7 16500
36 40.00
75 ... 155.00 105 150.00
136 220.00
167 100.00
8 90.CO
37 30.00
76 ... 250.00
106 .... 50.00
137 ... 330.00
168 ... 77.00
9 70.00
40 28.00
77 100.00
107 75.00
138 125.00
169 77.00
10 3500
41 55.00
78 ... 375.00
108 475.00
141 70.00
170 60.00
11 70.00
43 22.50
79 250.00
HO 360.00
142 150.00
171 85.00
12 45.00
44 35.CO
81 6500
111 190.00
145 42500
172 50.00
13 50.00
47 25.00
82 8000
112 30.00
144 110.00
173 ... 50.00
14 35.00
50 5000
83 110.00
113 190.00
145 38500
174 90.00
15 70.00
51 .. 70.00
84 .... 35.00
114 .. 160.00
146 250.00
175 105.00
16 25.00
J2 30.00
85 .. 160.00
115 55.00
147 90.00
176 105.00
17 310.00
53 27.50
86 .... 80.00
116 45.00
148 70.00
182 200.00
18 60.00
54 40.00 j 88 . 85.00
117 150.00
149 40.00
183 150.00
19 75.00
55 40.00 | 89 65.00
118 90.00
150 170.00
186 500.00
20 46.00
56 175.00
90 60.00
120 75.00
151 185.00
188 325.00
21 66.00
58 40.00
91 40.00
121 425.00
152 610.00
189 155.00
24 6000
59 60.00
92 325.00
124 .... 260.00
153 750.00
191 155.00
26 75.00
60 60.00
93 15000
125 160.00
156 180.00
195 250.00
27 25.00
61 27.50
96 . 4500
127 50.00
157 85.00
196 2500.00
28 85.00
63 65.CO
97 30.00
128 60.00
159 110.00
197 1900.UO
244
GLOSSARY OF TERMS USED IN THE EDWARD CANS ORAL HISTORY
Auction — a sale at which objects are offered to the highest
bidder, either by mail or on the auction floor.
Aureus — a Roman gold coin worth twenty-five silver denari.
Cabinet — means a "collection;" whatever the coin is kept in is
called a "cabinet. "
Classical -- pertaining to ancient Greek and Roman eras, and a
period of Greek art that flourished in the fifth century
EC.
Dekadrachm — a ten-drachma silver coin of the ancient Greeks.
Denarius -- the standard Roman silver coin--said to be worth ten
bronze asses until 133 BC, and sixteen asses after that.
Nero (54-68 AD) lowered its silver content, as did his
successors, and by 214 AD it was only 40 percent silver.
Drachma — a unit of weight; a term having to do with the amount
of silver in a coin. One drachma equals six obols.
Exergue -- the area of a coin below the ground line; symbols such
as single letters may be in this section.
Hellenistic — a term for Greek culture and art after the time of
Alexander the Great.
Lot — the term given to a coin, or group of coins offered for
sale; it may be on a numbered list at a fixed price, and
in an auction catalog.
Medallion -- a bronze, silver, or gold coin, or medal issued by
a Roman emperor to commemorate an event; it may be worn
around the neck on a chain.
Numismatics — the study of coins.
Numismatist — one who studies coins using the science of
numismatics .
Obol — a silver Greek coin valued at one-sixth of a drachma.
Quadriga — a representation of a chariot driven by four horses.
Roman Empire — the Roman period from 27 BC until the empire
ended several centuries later.
245
GLOSSARY (Continued)
Roman Republic — the Roman period before 27 BC.
•
Solidus — a gold coin of the later Roman Empire originated by
Constantine — that is lighter than the earlier aureus.
Stater — the principal weight or denomination of Greek coinage,
either in gold or silver.
Unpublished — when a particular classical coin does not appear
in any of the reference works pertaining to a part of
the ancient world, it is said to be "unpublished."
Weight standard -- the standardized weight unit to which ancient
cities and states struck their coinage; the weight
standard often varied from one area to another.
246
INDEX — EDWARD CANS
American Numismatic Association, 71,93
American Numismatic Society, 67,68,71,83,99,100,118
Amyx, Darrell, 80, 189
Anastos, Milton, 84,110
Anderson (in English Dept . ) , 189
Alsbergs, the, 184
antiquities, passim
Archeological Institute of America, 68,69
von Aulock, Hans, 90,91,111,112,154,157,158,171,188
Azarpay, Guitty, 148,165,168,182,192
Baldwin, Albert (Baldwin firm), 155,158,163,166,187,189,191
Bauer, George, 72,104
Berlin, Germany, life in, 2,13-15,20,22,28,140
Berry, Burton Y., 89,90
Bieber, Margareta, 83
Bischoff, Olga, 73
Bliss, Robert Woods, 70,85
Blumenstein firm, 19,20,30
Borage (dir. Milwaukee museum), 157,160
Borovsky, Natasha, 50,134,135,137,176,177,185,186,190,197
Brett, Agnes Baldwin, 81,83
Brummer, Joseph, 74,75,82
Cahn, Herbert (Cahn firm), 64,188,189
Cansio, Leopold, 91,92
Caro, Nikodem, 22
Dales, G.F., 124
Davis, Norman, 118,119,172,191,192
Depression, 46,61
Deutsche Landerbank, 21-23,192
Dewing, Arthur S., 69,86,87,94,95,171
Dumbarton Oaks collection, 84,85,192
Dykman (attorney), 96-98
Eisenberg, Carol, 137,174,190,197
Erxleben, Frederich, 38,42
Ettinghausen, Richard, 83
Faberge (designer), 28
Feith, Hermann, 96
Field (collector of Mexican seals), 168
Frank, Otto, 155,188
Freund (at Dumbarton Oaks museum), 85
247
Cans, Alfred, 2,13,15
Cans, Asya Marshack, 36,47,55,58,62,64,72,82,87,90,97,
101,127-130,132,129,153,156,193,196,200
Cans, Lydia, 59,101,130,141,147,156,174,178,179,180,181,196
Cans, Paula Muller, 17,25-32,101,194,197
Cans, Robert, 2,27,25-35,51,54,59,101
Gobi, Robert E., 103,148
Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von, 150-152
Greifenhagen, Adolf (dir. Berliner Museum), 43,44
Grosse (art collector), 113,121
Gutman, Melvin, 75
Hamburg, Germany, life in, 1-11,26
Hearst, Phoebe, 126
Hecht, Herbert, 26
Heimpel, Wolfgang, 67,115,119,125,142-144,148,158,163,
168,182,184,198
Heinzer (of Thailand museum), 115
Heizer, Sziggy, 167,168
Hellman, Julius, 20
Heppner, Max, 26-28
Hersch, Charles, 105
Herzfeld, Ernst, 82,183
Heuss, Theodore, 38
Hirsch, Jacob, 71-74,97,98,117,149,165,169-171,199
Hitler, Adolf, 23,125,160
Horn, Polly, 174,177-179,190,191,198,202
Howe, Ginny, 190
Hunt, Nelson Bunker and William Herbert, 145,146,171,188,189
I.G. Farbenindustrie, 23,44
International Association of Professional Numismatists,
81,102,105,164,165,170,171,188
Israel, 56,57,104
Jamieson, Tom and Roslyn, 137,174,176
Judd, J. Hewitt, 87-89,196,200,201
Kampmann, Michel, 164
Kaplan, Lucy Shapiro, 135-140,174,176,190,193,197
Kerr, Alfred, 34
Kilmer, Ann, 67,158,166
Kisch, Guido, 83
Knight, Max, 133,161,162
Kolley, Jane, 165
Kolonial Bank, 20,21,44
von Korner, Oscar, 21,22
Kossof, Abe, 164
Kovacs, Frank, 187,188
248
Kougal , Max, 114
Kreisler, Fritz, 36
Kreutzer, Leonid, 129
Kruger, Kurt, 44,45,56
Lande, Irene, 143
Lederer, Philipp, 32,33,41,51,58,65,69,146
Lehmann-Hartleben, Karl, 79,80
Lieberman, Alexander and Steffa, 129,130,159
L.L. Hamburger firm, 64
Lowenthal (sculptor), 101
Mabbott, Thomas Oliver, 72
McCormack, Fowler, 199
McNall, Bruce, 145,146,165
Mainzer, Ferdinand, 34,38-42
Martin, F.R., 53
Mautner, Felix, 184,185
Mendelsohn, Eric, 209
Metal, Julio, 62-67,69
Michaelovitch, George, 48
Micco, Guy (Gans's physician), 172
Miller (excavator), 189
Mockel, Otto, 45
Monckeberg, Franz, 9,10
Moore, Gregory G. Cans, 101
Morgenroth, Sigmund, 146-149
Morley, Charles, 147
Muller, Waldemar, 60
museums, 192
music, 5-10,39,40,45,56,125
Na Chi-Liang, 114,121,161,162,167
Nash, Ernest and Irene, 54,106,153,154
Newell, Edward T. , 68-72,99
Neumier, Alfred, 196
Niemeyer, Magnus, 5-7
Numismatic Fine Arts, 47,48,63-68,76-78,101, 109,110,119,
120,124,131,145,146,188
numismatics, 106, 107 , passim
Nussbaum, David, 64,65,67,81
Nussbaum, Hans, 65
O.K. Rosenberg and Company, 13-15
Pappas, Louis, 143,167
Petri, Egon, 129
Porada, Edith, 111,112,145,157,166,171,188
Pottner, Erail,31
249
Pritchett, Kendrick, 69
Provost, Julie, 175,197
Richmond, Kenneth, 96,97,99
Richter, Gisela, 33-52,83,153
Roosevelt, Franklin, D., 66
Rosenberg, Oscar, 13
Salmony, Alfred, 82
Santa Maria brothers, 153
Schocken, Salman and Herman, 117-119,206-210
Schoenlicht, Alfred, 95-96
Schmitz, Geheimrat, 32
Schroeder, Arthur and Norma, 198
Schroeder, Steven, 61
scrapbooks, 193-195
Sexton (dentist), 62
Simon, Israel and Company, 3,8-11
Sintensis, Rene, 31
Sloan, Michael, 173,174,180
Sluga, Hans, 184,185
Spink's, 187,191
Starr (dir. Milwaukee museum), 160,161
Stavenhagen (art collector), 168
Stronach, David, 142,168
Stress, Fred and Helen, 122, 128, 130, 1A2, 168, 198
Ternbach, Josef, 52,75
Thatcher (dir. Dumbarton Oaks museum), 85
Theorell, Hugo and Margit, 127,128
Thompson, Homer and Dorothy, 83
Tikotin, Felix, 113,121,159,160
Vatican collection, 105
Velay, Maxime, 70,71,175
Victorius, Annie, 128
Vogelsang (Hamburg exporter), 10,11
Wagner, Cosima, 36
Wahnschaff, Theodor, 2
Walden, Herwarth, 31
Warburg, Max, 47,57
Whittemore, Thomas (head of numismatic div. Dumbarton
Oaks museum) , 85
World War I, 17-19,29,30
Wormser (of New Netherlands Coin Co.). 65
Xenia, Princess, 97,98,103
250
Zahn, Robert, 40-43
Zara, Louis, 100
Ora Huth
Graduated from the University of California, Berkeley,
in 1943 with an A.B. degree, and in 1947 with an M.A.
degree in fine arts. From 1943-1945 served in the U.S.
Marine Corps at Arlington, Virginia. Taught art in the
Vallejo Unified School District, 1947-1956.
Postgraduate Researcher, Assistant Specialist, and
Research Associate and author specializing in governance
of the San Francisco Bay Area and the California coast
line for the Institute of Governmental Studies, University
of California, Berkeley, 1968-1985. Research Associate,
ABT Associates, Inc., Cambridge, Massachusetts, to study
the San Francisco Redevelopment Agency for U.S. Department
of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), 1978-1979. Legal
research for Oakland family law attorney, 1975-1984.
From 1956 to date active in community affairs as member and
past chairperson, City of Berkeley Waterfront Commission;
as president of the League of Women Voters of Berkeley:
and as director, officer, and chairperson of studies of
regional government, land use, and general program planning
for the Leagues of Women Voters of California, of the
Bay Area, and of Berkeley.
Employed, 1983, as interviewer on numismatics, soil chemistry,
and medical care topics for the Regional Oral History
Office.
19 7074